Kyrie Irving

TopGun said:

But if you asked a Warriors, Thunder, or Rockets fan if they'd trade their best player for Kyrie right now most of them would probably say no.

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You can't really blame them. Ask any high level exec though.....

I'm trading no one for Kyrie right now

Durant is injured a lot, Harden and Kyrie are equal so I stick with Kyrie and Davis is amazing but I don't think a big will ever impact a game as much as a point guard.

Kizzle said:

I'm trading no one for Kyrie right now

Durant is injured a lot, Harden and Kyrie are equal so I stick with Kyrie and Davis is amazing but I don't think a big will ever impact a game as much as a point guard.

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Ugh, huh? This is the NBA we're talking about here.

amazon123 said:

That is because Lebron milks all 24 seconds off the shot clock, whereas Kyrie shoots it with time left, usually because he can get past his guy at will

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Might be partly that, but I think it's more because Kyrie is more of a pure scorer than LeBron. Obviously LeBron can score the basketball, but he's always scored more as a result of pure physical dominance along with streaky shooting. Whereas Kyrie simply has every weapon, every move in the arsenal. It's like watching Gale Sayers run the football as opposed to Earl Campbell. Both immensely effective, but one of them is poetry in motion.

Rich said:

Ugh, huh? This is the NBA we're talking about here.

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In general I tend to agree with @Kizzle in the sense that the days that big men have dominated the NBA have long since passed with the rule changes.

I went on at length about this about a year ago and detailed how much the league has really become perimeter oriented as opposed to the old school days.

With respect to game impact, I do think the PG has a greater impact, in general, than a power forward in the modern NBA, assuming both are playing within their traditional roles.

p.s.
This years MVP race is a perfect example of a league dominated by guards; particularly players who play the point. (James, Harden, Westbrook, Curry).

Except Davis HAS impacted the game more than Kyrie has, as evidenced by the fact he's currently got his team in the playoffs, in the West, in only his 3rd season.

I've argued that I'd take a great wing player over anything else in the current NBA climate, but I'd still take a great big over a great PG. The ability to dominate the game on both ends is something a PG will always struggle to achieve.

Now, this is all within the debate about "trade value." In a vacuum, I trade Kyrie for Davis 10 times out of 10. But during a season where we're actually a title contender, I don't trade any of the primary players for anyone else. Much like I'm doubting Golden State would trade Curry for Davis or LeBron or Durant. They are one of the favorites to win a title. You don't mess with that.

Look, Kyrie has been great this year. He's fit into the role he's best suited for, which is as a second option who has the freedom to take a game over when the time is right. It's been awesome seeing him give more effort on the defensive end as he's been asked to do a little less on offense.

But Anthony Davis...that guy is gonna win multiple MVP awards and quite possibly starting as soon as next season. He's an animal.

That's because very few point guards are actually any good at defense. Especially early in their careers.

Davis isn't your typical star big however. He is looking like a legendary generational type player(his numbers are awfully similar to a prime David Robinson at 22 years old). Harden is clearly an inferior talent, but at the moment he is able to do more with his team because of his ability to get inside whenever he wants, ability to make shots from anywhere on the floor, and his ability to find shooters. That package all wrapped up into one is about as valuable as it gets in the modern NBA (and why we are sitting pretty with a guy like Kyrie and LeBron).

The Pelicans would be pretty dang scary if they could get some good guard play and find more shooters to fill out that roster. I also think Davis could shoot threes if he decided to. He has a very soft jump shot that he shoots with relative ease.

I don't mean to gloat, but Kyrie has now scored 55 on the day I was flying to the US to see him and the Cavs (obviously because he wanted to impress me) and 57 yesterday on my birthday.

Is anyone else noticing a trend?

It's pretty obvious Kyrie looks up to Kobe most because of their background (dads played ball) and because they are shooting guards

Kyrie just happens to be shorter and has to play point guard well

Looks like dude is ready for money time aka post season

Rich said:

Except Davis HAS impacted the game more than Kyrie has, as evidenced by the fact he's currently got his team in the playoffs, in the West, in only his 3rd season.

I've argued that I'd take a great wing player over anything else in the current NBA climate, but I'd still take a great big over a great PG. The ability to dominate the game on both ends is something a PG will always struggle to achieve.

Now, this is all within the debate about "trade value." In a vacuum, I trade Kyrie for Davis 10 times out of 10. But during a season where we're actually a title contender, I don't trade any of the primary players for anyone else. Much like I'm doubting Golden State would trade Curry for Davis or LeBron or Durant. They are one of the favorites to win a title. You don't mess with that.

Look, Kyrie has been great this year. He's fit into the role he's best suited for, which is as a second option who has the freedom to take a game over when the time is right. It's been awesome seeing him give more effort on the defensive end as he's been asked to do a little less on offense.

But Anthony Davis...that guy is gonna win multiple MVP awards and quite possibly starting as soon as next season. He's an animal.

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Davis has been awesome so far as a pro. He's obviously looking like the "young guy most likely to win multiple MVPs" at the moment. A franchise cornerstone, no doubt.

To be fair to Kyrie, though, I seriously doubt that -- at any point in his first three years -- he was on a team good enough to go 5-1 in a key stretch of the schedule while he was out injured the way the Pels did this season with Ad out. In fact, KI did miss some games in his first three years... and the results were mostly disastrous. And, that was in a weakened EC, not the stacked West.

I think it is fair to say that AD is in a much better situation from a team standpoint than Kyrie was at any point prior to this season. Had the Pels imploded (as was expected) in the 12 games that Davis has missed this year, they would not currently be a playoff team. Not taking away from him as a player, because he's freaking awesome.

The issues we had early with Kyrie were with what we surrounded him with (maturity also). When you have someone with the ability to get wherever he wants on the court whenever he wants; you don't go and get players that shrink the floor or take the ball out of his hands (Which is exactly what we did). I find myself like Tristan a lot more in the role he was born to play, but he does have some major limitations (poor defensive rebounding and gets beat up by bigger centers). That is a really tough pill to swallow at #4 in the draft. Things have worked themselves out though and he is much more valuable when used correctly.

Waiters though, my science, what an unmitigated disaster that pick was (same goes for Bennett obviously but at least on paper Bennett was suppose to do things that complimented his team).

Chris said:

True. People are homers. Yes, even Cavs fans.

But the thing is, you'd have to factor in youth. Kyrie is what, 23 this month? I guess I kind of forgot about Durant. Obviously Durant is still young and is a better player. but seriously, the point is, the list is short. Very short. Curry is still pretty young and is basically Kyrie 2.0 in a lot of ways, so I'd take him I guess.

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Chris said:

True. People are homers. Yes, even Cavs fans.

But the thing is, you'd have to factor in youth. Kyrie is what, 23 this month? I guess I kind of forgot about Durant. Obviously Durant is still young and is a better player. but seriously, the point is, the list is short. Very short. Curry is still pretty young and is basically Kyrie 2.0 in a lot of ways, so I'd take him I guess.

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I actually looked last night and Curry turns 27 tomorrow. Kyrie 23 in a week.
So Kyrie is a full 4 years younger, and if you match their numbers at similar points, they're quite close as far as projection. Curry is still better though, so they are certainly happy with him entering his prime as the team as a real contender.

Curry a slightly better shooter and defender. Kyrie a better ball handler and finisher.

I have to wonder what Kyrie's ceiling is? With him already amongst the elite 3pt shooters, and the ability to get his own shot whenever he wants with his ball handling, it's staggering what he could become if he keeps improving.

You know you're emerging as a superstar when Miami homer Israel Gutierrez just flat out said Kyrie is the best player that Lebron has ever played with.

And he's right. 2010 Wade was still a step ahead in advanced stats, but it was never as organic a fit as LBJ and Kyrie are. His best days had already passed when Lebron got there.

Plus, Wade couldn't do what Kyrie did last night. He could have smart games and play great perimeter defense. There was times when Wade carried Lebron for a game, but there was a moment last night where Lebron looked over and you could tell that he knew that he couldn't do what Kyrie was doing.

When Wade carried him in a random game it was because Lebron was having an off night, or Wade was hitting floaters and having a savvy great game. That was something different last night. That was a skillset unique from Lebron. Lebron could do everything Wade could do better and more consistently. There was no aspect of his game superior to Lebron like Kyrie's handle is. That was totally unstoppable.

Kyrie wore those navy's again last night...my lord, I really need these. I hope they become available to purchase eventually.





http://solecollector.com/news/kyrie-irving-57-points-nike-kyrie-1-navy-pe/

Ok, I'm sorry, but I would take Anthony Davis over Kyrie in a heartbeat. I love Kyrie. He's an absolute stud, but the Brow is about to put up the 8th highest PER in league history (only Jordan, Lebron, and Wilt have put up higher) and he's only 21 years old.

I understand and probably agree with not taking him over Harden, Westbrook, and Curry because Kyrie is our boy and even though they're better right now, Kyrie is a lot younger and can be better than all of them. Chris Paul is almost 30, so I would keep Kyrie over him, as well.

But Anthony Davis? I'm sorry but I would sell my left testicle to pair Anthony Davis up with Lebron. The Brow is the real deal. Besides Davis though, the only other players I would trade Kyrie for are Kevin Durant (come one, KD and LBJ on the same team would be awesome). That's it though.

On a sidenote, I hate this notion where people say "you can't win with a dominant big these days" as others say "you can't win with a point guard as your best player" (because it hasn't happened since the 2004 Pistons with Chauncey and then the Bad Boys Pistons with Isiah before that). You win with good players. Period. There's no requirements for winning a championship based on positions. Just because something is rare doesn't mean it can't happen.