The Cavs and the salary cap

I'mWithDan said:

Clearly guys like Mozgov will fall off but the bump is enough to retain the three most important guys on our roster. It's likely all the other pieces will be fluid.

We'll keep Moz for one more year then cut him loose for a DP or min salary player.
I also think we'll move Anderson at some point and ditto for TT.

We realistically can't hold our current roster entirely in tact beyond this season but it would be stupid not to just eat the bill for one year and then make some tough decisions next.

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One can easily argue that Moz is our third most important player (important, not best). We were a second round team with the defense that we played until we got him. The big 3 along with Moz and Shumpert are absolutely must retains.

Separately, for those banking on a huge cap increase, as nikolajz1 hinted, max contracts are percentages of the cap and proportionately eat up any cap increase. At minimum, Lebron and Love will be taking up 65% of the elevated cap themselves if/when they sign the max next year.

I think people will reassess what a max player is when the max salary goes to $33 million. Draymond Green might be a max salary guy now but he won't be when it's $33 million. People are talking about a near-max salary for TT now but he won't be anywhere near a $33 million max. Same might be true for KLove -- he will be a $25 million player, but $33 million?

NasstyNate said:

One can easily argue that Moz is our third most important player (important, not best). We were a second round team with the defense that we played until we got him. The big 3 along with Moz and Shumpert are absolutely must retains.

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The big 3 plus Moz are I think our most important players. Then comes TT. Shump is important but all we need is a good perimeter defender with size who can hit a wide open 3 at at least league average rates. That is not so rare that we need to keep Shump at all costs. Even for TT, we could get another energy big if we needed him. Huge rim protectors with the athleticism to keep up with the rest of our lineup are harder to find.

I wish it was somehow possible to swap Danny Green and Shumpert.

cavsfever said:

The big 3 plus Moz are I think our most important players. Then comes TT. Shump is important but all we need is a good perimeter defender with size who can hit a wide open 3 at at least league average rates. That is not so rare that we need to keep Shump at all costs. Even for TT, we could get another energy big if we needed him. Huge rim protectors with the athleticism to keep up with the rest of our lineup are harder to find.

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Shumpert is an elite on ball defender. Klay's finals will attest to that. Players with his impact relative to his contract are extremely difficult to find. He can win games by himself by shutting down a single guard-dominated offense. Can you suggest others like him that are obtainable?

NasstyNate said:

Shumpert is an elite on ball defender. Klay's finals will attest to that. Players with his impact relative to his contract are extremely difficult to find. He can win games by himself by shutting down a single guard-dominated offense. Can you suggest others like him that are obtainable?

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Why I mentioned Danny Green. Doubt the Spurs even pick up the phone if offered Shump and JR though.

Green would be perfect on the team. Better defender than Shump. Elite 3 point shooter. Would have so many open looks next to Lebron, Kyrie, and Kev.

NasstyNate said:

Shumpert is an elite on ball defender. Klay's finals will attest to that. Players with his impact relative to his contract are extremely difficult to find. He can win games by himself by shutting down a single guard-dominated offense. Can you suggest others like him that are obtainable?

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OK, maybe I have been under appreciating his defense. But I wasn't talking about his current contract -- if we could keep him at his current salary that's a no-brainer. But he is a RFA this year (right?) so we would have to match what others offer. The question is, if we have to let someone go. I mentioned him as one of the six most important players on the team (big 3, Mozgov, TT, Shump) but said if we had to let one of those six go for salary reasons it should be him. Do you disagree?

cavsfever said:

OK, maybe I have been under appreciating his defense. But I wasn't talking about his current contract -- if we could keep him at his current salary that's a no-brainer. But he is a RFA this year (right?) so we would have to match what others offer. The question is, if we have to let someone go. I mentioned him as one of the six most important players on the team (big 3, Mozgov, TT, Shump) but said if we had to let one of those six go for salary reasons it should be him. Do you disagree?

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Gotcha. I assumed Shumpert would get around $10m a year and think his value is higher than that still.

To answer your question, TT and it isn't close. He is a luxury. Great to have as an x factor when we have a full squad, but not even close to a building block.

nikolajz1 said:

Why I mentioned Danny Green. Doubt the Spurs even pick up the phone if offered Shump and JR though.

Green would be perfect on the team. Better defender than Shump. Elite 3 point shooter. Would have so many open looks next to Lebron, Kyrie, and Kev.

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Green is a free agent, meaning unless he's willing to sign for 3yrs/11mil, he won't be a Cav.
http://realcavsfans.com/community/i...-and-the-salary-cap.45987/page-2#post-2193837
http://realcavsfans.com/community/i...-and-the-salary-cap.45987/page-2#post-2193837

cavsfever said:

The big 3 plus Moz are I think our most important players. Then comes TT. Shump is important but all we need is a good perimeter defender with size who can hit a wide open 3 at at least league average rates. That is not so rare that we need to keep Shump at all costs. Even for TT, we could get another energy big if we needed him. Huge rim protectors with the athleticism to keep up with the rest of our lineup are harder to find.

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What is Timo's realistic number? 10-12 million? I think you can acquire rim protection for way cheaper than that.

If you look at guys in his neighborhood (FG% / Points Saved / Age)

Ian Mahinmi - 4 million
Kosta Koufos - 2.2 Million

Is Mozgov better than those guys? Yes but enough to pay him 2-4 times as much? Given our cap situation? It's a tough decision but I would lean towards not. It's why I think the Haywood contract should just be moved for a DP to someone like SAS (looking to acquire Aldridge). A first round pick could land someone like Mahinmi, who would simply serve Mozgov's role on defense.

This is pretty much where Griffin will earn his money. in the next 18 months, we need to somehow cycle in role players who can competently fill in for someone who is due more money than we would like to pay them.

Do I want to keep Mozgov beyond next year? Sure but unless we're moving TT or letting him walk, I don't see how we have the resources to do so. At some point, you have to move on from players simply because the economics don't make sense. Had we not signed AV, that money obviously would have gone to Moz but unless we can stretch Anderson or find a taker in a salary dump (highly unlikely) I'm not sure what we can do.

nikolajz1 said:

That massive salary cap bump will be nullified by Lebron's 35 mil/yr contract. Then add in a Mozgov 15 million dollar + contract in a year and were pushing like a 175 million dollar roster before tax. There's zero way we can keep everyone. I can't see Gilbert losing 150 million a year for 5 years to field this team.

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Agreed. I think that salary cap bumps in the pro sports tend to be overrated. More money doesn't necessarily mean more flexibility, because player salaries are going to rise accordingly. Where there is a measurable impact is with contracts signed from before the cap went up. Kyrie, for example -- that will look like a bargain going forward.

The other thing is that agents will plan accordingly. Many players are going to be hesitant to sign long-term deals this offseason, instead opting to wait until next year when they can get more money. Locking players up early in anticipation of the cap rising is a great strategy, but you have to convince the players/agents to agree to it as well. There isn't much incentive for them to sign early (although there is some -- financial security in case of a catastrophic injury, a dollar today being worth more than a dollar a year from now [i.e. investments], etc).

LeBro said:

The other thing is that agents will plan accordingly. Many players are going to be hesitant to sign long-term deals this offseason, instead opting to wait until next year when they can get more money. Locking players up early in anticipation of the cap rising is a great strategy, but you have to convince the players/agents to agree to it as well. There isn't much incentive for them to sign early (although there is some -- financial security in case of a catastrophic injury, a dollar today being worth more than a dollar a year from now [i.e. investments], etc).

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If we see lots of 1 year contracts in the NBA, that could be excellent for us. Perhaps we could get a guy in his prime for a 1 year MLE deal with a player option in year 2, so he can "prove it" and try to get to that next pay tier going into the cap raise, all while playing with the guy who makes all players around him look better than they are.

Re: financial security - concerned players could simply transfer the risk of catastrophic injury to Lloyds of London or another insurance carrier. There's limits on that insurable amount, but then again, if 1. It can be afforded and 2. It can be reasonably determined to be a necessary amount, it can be justified as suitable (up to a point that I am unsure of).

Griffin at press conference --

'ownership will support at the absolute deepest level, we don't have any questions other than what will win' --

DAN GILBERT IS OPENING UP HIS POCKETS

cavsfever said:

Griffin at press conference --

'ownership will support at the absolute deepest level, we don't have any questions other than what will win' --

DAN GILBERT IS OPENING UP HIS POCKETS

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This is interesting.

cavsfever said:

Griffin at press conference --

'ownership will support at the absolute deepest level, we don't have any questions other than what will win' --

DAN GILBERT IS OPENING UP HIS POCKETS

Click to expand...