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Reporter, Cameraman Shot While On-Air

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I understand the right to have guns is constitutional, the bit i dont get is where it says what type of weapons. If it was limited to firearms which had a maximum of 6 shots before reloading, surely that would be marginally safer but still uphold the rights desired?

You could draw the line at a lot of places, but it should be pointed out that the right in the U.S. is not unlimited. You generally can't get automatic weapons, or grenades, or rocket launchers, etc. You're limited to personal, semi-automatic weapons. Here's a good article on common-sense limitations:

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/07/24/bullet-initiative-354203.html

Magazine size is still debated, and it's a tough issue because there isn't an obvious place at which to set the cutoff. If 6, why not 5, or 4? Or 7?

FWIW, the Supreme Court refused to accept a case that had upheld a ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. Doesn't mean they'd rule that way if they'd actually have accepted the case for review, but that at least tells you what can be done right now.

Personally, I think that number is too low for a ban on possessing such magazines simply because too many very popular and common handguns come with magazines with slightly larger capacities.

But I think bans on large capacity, after-market stuff are fine.
 
Don't ban all the guns. Just go back to the barrel-loading muskets that were the norm when the constitution was written.

Discontinue all other guns for public sale.

Imagine having to carry one of those big bastards around? If someone shot it, you could hear it from a mile away. Plus it's only one shot then you have to reload and that can take several minutes. Provided you brought ample gunpowder, wadding, and flint caps with you....

A musket shop would pop up right across from the Browns practice facility. I will tell you that.

@Randolphkeys
 
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Developed nations like the ones in the chart I posted provide a more accurate depiction for what the barometer should be.

You think I give a shit that Venezuela or Honduras has a higher rate of violence? That's the measuring stick we want to use?
 
Developed nations like the ones in the chart I posted provide a more accurate depiction for what the barometer should be.

You think I give a shit that Venezuela or Honduras has a higher rate of violence? That's the measuring stick we want to use?
I think you're better off sticking to skewing stats to make it look like Carlos Santana is a good baseball player.
 
I think you're better off sticking to skewing stats to make it look like Carlos Santana is a good baseball player.

As you are at following cults via youtube, but we all need to branch out every now and again.
 
Within 2 days he decided to do this, bought the gun, and killed the people. If he didn't have such easy access to a gun, those people would be alive tonight. if he has to go through training and licensing to get a gun, he probably doesn't even bother. If he had to use some other weapon besides a gun, he probably doesn't even do it, and even if he tried, they have a much better chance at surviving.

Nobody suggests that the murder rate would go to zero, only that it could decline. As could suicide rates and gun related accidental death rates. We don't expect traffic fatalities to get to zero, that doesn't mean we don't continue to make car safer.

I don't have the time today to do this argument justice, so I'll throw up a few links at the end of this blurb and hope people will look into it themselves.

The primary issue I have with this whole debate is people trying to determine the outcome of the future based on specific past events: IE This particular guy went out, bought a gun, and murdered 3 people, therefore had he not had access to a gun, this crime wouldn't have happened. That's absolutely impossible to know, and I'm not saying that to be facetious. There is almost 0 correlation between a country's homicide rate and gun control. I am serious about that, universally homicide rates are barely, if at all, affected by gun laws. In some cases, the rates increase, which makes sense in a low correlation situation. The same holds true for suicide rates, accidental deaths, etc.

Yet there is some correlation about the increase in violent crime overall in a country which has banned guns. There is evidence that certain events, such as random rape, actually increase with gun bans, which logically wouldn't be anticipated.

I don't own a gun, nor do I have any desire to own one. I don't have a strong view on this particular topic, and if guns were outlawed tomorrow I doubt it would impact my life in any truly meaningful way. That said, I also think the argument for that ban is disingenuous. We are creating the illusion that if guns were banned, so much of the crime and violence in this country would be solved. That the very existence of firearms in our country creates the culture we don't understand and detest, and enables mass murders. The problem is, evidence shows these issues exist separately from the weaponry entirely.

I think we spend way too much time and energy debating surface issues because the more difficult tasks of integrating multiple cultures and ideologies in this country is more difficult to solve. If you want to lower violent crime, find a way to identify people with substantial stress or poor mental states early, find a way to provide treatment and relief, or in extreme cases, find a way to get them removed from society until they're capable of being reintegrated safely. Find a way to reduce the effects of unintentional racism, and reduce the sense of experiencing racism for minorities.

Of course, that doesn't happen when neighbors keep their doors locked and don't interact, families cast out the odd balls, and we foster a natural darwinistic aggression in all facets of life.

Following:
Links from unbiased or mostly unbiased sources on the effects of gun bans and the effect on actual homicides and crime (Note: Not gun-related homicide, which would obviously drop as expected from outlawing guns. People just find other, more inventive ways to kill each other)

https://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp (Independent site which provides data without attempting to draw meaningful conclusions)

http://web.archive.org/web/20131125...nts/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf This is a Harvard study specifically on the murder and violent crime correlation as it pertains to gun control. I have skimmed it, but honestly haven't read all of it in its entirety. That said, I'd recommend looking at the tables and granting the researchers some trust in the conclusions he draws at the end of the document.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-a-central-thesis-of-the-gun-rights-movement/ A Washington Post article which discusses a bit of research that concluded more guns means less crime, and revisited 10 years later with updated data determined more guns means more crime. The latter here isn't the full conclusion drawn by researchers however, they simply determine that the correlation between guns and crime is low, if not 0, and the data trying to relate the two will likely vary based on when samples are taken.

I could go on, and I'd recommend looking into the impact on homicide and violent crime overall in countries which have imposed gun bans such as England, for evidence of a lack of expected correlation.
 
lol how convenient to leave out the countries with a higher rate.

Guns-in-other-countries-homicides-per-100000-people-top-ten-countries-plus-Unites-States.jpg

Woo hoo, the United States is safer than Honduras. You set he bar for success really high there. How about we compare what is supposed to be the greatest nation in the world to the other developed nations?
 
Woo hoo, the United States is safer than Honduras. You set he bar for success really high there. How about we compare what is supposed to be the greatest nation in the world to the other developed nations?

Other developed nations with much longer histories, much less diversity, and much more aligned ideologies... Apples to apples.
 
Woo hoo, the United States is safer than Honduras. You set he bar for success really high there. How about we compare what is supposed to be the greatest nation in the world to the other developed nations?
Surely, the 103 countries ahead of the US are all undeveloped.
 
I don't own a gun, nor do I have any desire to own one. I don't have a strong view on this particular topic, and if guns were outlawed tomorrow I doubt it would impact my life in any truly meaningful way. That said, I also think the argument for that ban is disingenuous

I never argued for a ban. I argued for finding ways to lower the gun related death rate. Murders, suicides, accidents.

Require gun safety training and testing before you can buy a gun. You can't test until at least a week until after you started the gun safety training while the training itself takes some amount of effort but can reasonably be accomplished in a week.

This is before buying a first gun, the license lasts indefinitely after that, but does have reasons it could be revoked. Selling one of your guns to someone who doesn't have a license is one of the reasons. The goal is to both reduce accidentally deaths and give people buying them to harm others or themselves, like the guy yesterday, some time to change their mind.

Improve the safety of the gun itself. Children shouldn't be able to find them and accidentally kill themselves or another child. Key their firing ability to their owner (and their owners spouse only if the spouse is also licensed).

Ban the sale of semi-autoatic weapons that can be converted to automatic weapons as well as the sale of large clips.

Sure, you can't predict every individual case, but you can know that things like this can lower the overall related gun death rate.

It really would be nice of the people who are against banning guns, something i haven't suggested doing, would also work on ideas to lower the ridiculously high gun death rate in the country. Look at cases like yesterday and think, what could be done differently.
 
Surely, the 103 countries ahead of the US are all undeveloped.

the vast majority of the developed countries are doing better than us. I posted that chart earlier. Our goal as a nation shouldn't be to avoid being the worst. Things are so bad in this country even aiming for world average would save a ton of lives.
 
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Surely, the 103 countries ahead of the US are all undeveloped.

There's always the possibility that the few countries that aren't also have gun lobbyists pouring millions into brainwashing their citizens through fear.
 

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