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Tristan Thompson

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If they're truly digging in and demanding a max, he's going to play on the QO.

Our FO was very shrewd with Delly / Mo / Shump, who IMO all signed under market. While TT is important, there is just no way in hell we're paying him that kind of money. NONE. We just can't with KI's extension kicking in and Love resigning.

Griff is an INCREDIBLY talented GM. IMO it is more likely we find a S&T partner for TT than it is for us to pay him anywhere near $94 million. I have no doubt Griffin would ship out TT in a hot second if any team offered us even a comparable player on a cheaper contract.

It's time for ownership to just dig in, force him to sign the QO and deal with it next season. It's going to be really hard to replace him if he does indeed walk but the tax savings from this year alone make it worth the gamble to me. If you overpay NEXT season, it's a little easier to swallow because we'll have some more wiggle room financially.
 
HurricaneKid said:
You are completely wrong about this. Fegan has never held a FA into September. In fact, the only two big time FAs that have in my memory are Bledsoe and Tris.
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I guess you forgot when Dan Fegan represented a player you may know as Anderson Varejao in 2007 when he held out until December of 2007 and declined his qualifying offer before the season. I know you don't like Rich Paul and its obvious in your post but at least you as a "Cavs fan" should know that fact about the Varejao hold out.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
[


How exactly do you things going that result in LBJ leaving? I can see two possible scenarios as that relates to TT..

1) The Cavs cheap out, and TT leaves next year because someone else offers more than the Cavs are willing to pay. I could see the potential for LBJ leaving then if the Cavs lose TT and don't get an equivalent replacement.

But if LBJ felt that way, don't you think he'd tell the Cavs that before they cheaped out? All he would have to do is delay his own signing until TT and Moz are re-signed (which seems like exactly what he'll do) and tell the Cavs that if TT walks because the Cavs won't match another offer, LBJ himself will leave.

Do you think that when faced with that choice, DG will let LBJ walk because he won't match TT's offer? I don't.

2) The Cavs match or exceed any offer TT gets, but TT leaves anyway. Very unlikely, but possible. Do you really think LBJ walks under that scenario?

I don't. We would still have a great team, and punishing the team and city even though they made the best offer would seem not only dumb, but completely petty. My guess is he'd be more pissed at TT than the Cavs at that point.
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I don't see LeBron leaving. Ever. There is just no way he can spin it. That said, he came to Gilbert to bury the hatchet and the one thing he made perfectly clear was that Gilbert couldn't cheap out; Gilbert agreed. It would cause all kinds of tension if the team lost major contributors because of just that. LeBron does passive aggressive really well and you don't want to get on his bad side. There are all kinds of repurcussions that would fall short of him leaving that would still cause issues. LeBron gets that his inertia makes everyone a better player and that limiting his salary to 30% of the cap inherently pushes up everyone else's salary (how else can you explain Tris holding off on 80M+ this long??) and he wants to have a real team around him, which he really hasn't ever had (even when he had Wade and Bosh there was no bench, etc).
 
MH32246 said:
I guess you forgot when Dan Fegan represented a player you may know as Anderson Varejao in 2007 when he held out until December of 2007 and declined his qualifying offer before the season. I know you don't like Rich Paul and its obvious in your post but at least you as a "Cavs fan" should know that fact about the Varejao hold out.
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Heh. Forgot about that one. I don't remember specifics either. I thought he was going back to play internationally and he ended up signing an offer sheet elsewhere into the next season. The whole thing was really weird.

I specified "my memory". I actually rewrote that sentence because I have a lousy memory and I knew someone was going to bring something like this up.

AV and TT were both coming off seasons where they were highly valuable bench players. TT had to hold out into the season to get 3/16. Things sure have changed...
 
HurricaneKid said:
. That said, he came to Gilbert to bury the hatchet and the one thing he made perfectly clear was that Gilbert couldn't cheap out; Gilbert agreed. It would cause all kinds of tension if the team lost major contributors because of just that.
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Agreed, but that really wasn't my point.

I agree that LBJ doesn't want to lose valuable teammates because DG is too cheap to pay them what they're worth. He doesn't want a replay of what happened with Miller in Miami.

But some are arguing that DG must do more than just pay what it takes to keep guys. They're arguing that there is some obligation that DG has to do Paul a "solid" by paying TT more than his market value to appease LBJ.

And I see zero support for that. If LBJ expected that "solid", he wouldn't have re-signed until TT got that desired long term deal. But it didn't happen that way. LBJ didn't even try to use the leverage of delaying re-signing.

LBJ cares who he plays with, but he doesn't care what they make. He wanted Shump re-signed, and as soon as that happened, LBJ re-signed. He didn't worry about TT because the Cavs gave him the QO. In other words, what was important to LBJ was that TT is on the team, and the QO guarantees that. Whether TT got more than the QO was a non-issue for him.

My guess is that the agreement between DG and LBJ - if there is one - is straightforward: DG will match (or perhaps beat by a smidge) any offer that an important player gets. So for TT, LBJ will be pissed if he walks next year because DG gets cheap.

But if TT gets offered 4/72, and the Cavs offer 4/73 or 5/90, I think that as far as they're expected to go. If TT chooses to walk even though the Cavs offered the best deal, I can't see LBJ holding that against DG.

Height hold it against TT or Paul, though.
 
Speaking of Rich Paul, anybody know where Norris Cole and NOP's negotiations are ?
 
HurricaneKid said:
I don't see LeBron leaving. Ever. There is just no way he can spin it. That said, he came to Gilbert to bury the hatchet and the one thing he made perfectly clear was that Gilbert couldn't cheap out; Gilbert agreed. It would cause all kinds of tension if the team lost major contributors because of just that .
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Since this is a public knowledge, don't you think every player on the roster will use that as a leverage? For example, cavs might offer Delly 3 million per year next year and he might demand 6 million per year just because you know it will look cavs cheaped out and lost a little piece.
I don't think it works like that. As long as cavs dishing out 3 maxes, and big money to role players and paying millions in taxes, LeBron cannot complain.
If cavs over pay TT, they have to max mozgov and then over pay every single player from now on.



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Tlyons said:
What in thee fuck is going on in this thread?

I could never be a mod because I'd be banning people justifying a 94 million dollar contract for tristan damn thompson. He doesn't deserve the 80m being offered.
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My biggest problem with it all is while i agree 100% with what you said, i do see the value in Tristan as a player. But because this whole negotiation is so polarizing among the fans, i find myself talking about Tristan's weaknesses instead of his strengths.

Look, lets all get on the same page. Tristan is a valuable piece to the puzzle. He does some very important things well. He also has major holes to his game, like most players. But the fact remains 5/80 is an overpay much less a max contract. But, Rich Paul is known for this type of negotiations.

Can we all try and tone it down a bit on both sides until October 1st when Tristan has to sign the QO?

I dont think he takes the qualifying offer, but he has until then to do it.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Agreed, but that really wasn't my point.

I agree that LBJ doesn't want to lose valuable teammates because DG is too cheap to pay them what they're worth. He doesn't want a replay of what happened with Miller in Miami.

But some are arguing that DG must do more than just pay what it takes to keep guys. They're arguing that there is some obligation that DG has to do Paul a "solid" by paying TT more than his market value to appease LBJ.

And I see zero support for that. If LBJ expected that "solid", he wouldn't have re-signed until TT got that desired long term deal. But it didn't happen that way. LBJ didn't even try to use the leverage of delaying re-signing.

LBJ cares who he plays with, but he doesn't care what they make. He wanted Shump re-signed, and as soon as that happened, LBJ re-signed. He didn't worry about TT because the Cavs gave him the QO. In other words, what was important to LBJ was that TT is on the team, and the QO guarantees that. Whether TT got more than the QO was a non-issue for him.

My guess is that the agreement between DG and LBJ - if there is one - is straightforward: DG will match (or perhaps beat by a smidge) any offer that an important player gets. So for TT, LBJ will be pissed if he walks next year because DG gets cheap.

But if TT gets offered 4/72, and the Cavs offer 4/73 or 5/90, I think that as far as they're expected to go. If TT chooses to walk even though the Cavs offered the best deal, I can't see LBJ holding that against DG.

Height hold it against TT or Paul, though.
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We are on the same page. If anything I think LeBron sees the salary cap as an asset to bring talent in. I could see him wanting to make sure there aren't any lousy deals made that would put him in a similar position to the one he was in last time he was in Cle when they just trade bad contracts for worse ones hoping something sticks. I think more than a little part of him is frustrated that he can only get 21M this year and TT is turning down 5/80. And he is right to be.
 
Tornicade said:
so its pauls fault. that phoenix would not do a sign and trade with Minnesota?
or is it Pauls fault that Bledsoe took the 70 million deal over 3.7 QO.


Once again even the article you linked mentions several time in July that Bledsoe was offered 48 million.

so not only did Paul get Bledsoe an extra 2 million a year.
Twolves offered Bledsoe 15 a year for which they didnt have the money available to put out an offer sheet.

Bledsoe could of chose to signthe QO he chose not to. HIs agent got him that deal on the table and gave him an option to explore free agency.

Bledsoe gets injured for the 3rd time in his five years and misss another half season. he wishes he had signed the 70 million.

The only Person Bledsoe has to be mad at is himself. I dont think he should be . He took thew safe route

What is delusion is that you believe you know whats best for Eric Bledsoe.

did Paul hide the Minnesota deal from him? did Paul hide the QO to free agency route from him?

no these things were public knoe so you can bet Bledsoe knew what his options were when he went to door 1. take the lower money.with max raises and try for a max contract when he is a proven commodity.

Phoenix has a proven track record of bullshit.

They excel at it.
Sarver had this to say about the exit:

"To be honest with you, we didn't really even have a chance. He had mentioned he was interested in coming back, and then when he was talking to Orlando, he just called and said, 'Hey, you've got three minutes to match this offer.'"


To which Frye responded:

"I think we have to take what that front office says with a grain of salt. I think right now they need to focus on their own team. I think we had many negotiations between [us and] the Suns."​

and what about Goran Dragic. Although Dragic apologized he did say he didnt trust the front office and Sarver replied to that apology with this
Sarver had this to say about the exit:

"To be honest with you, we didn't really even have a chance. He had mentioned he was interested in coming back, and then when he was talking to Orlando, he just called and said, 'Hey, you've got three minutes to match this offer.'"


To which Frye responded:

"I think we have to take what that front office says with a grain of salt. I think right now they need to focus on their own team. I think we had many negotiations between [us and] the Suns."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/4/11/8386823/evaluating-the-phoenix-suns-front-office

The Author took the apology as meaning Goran was maing things up but I think it shows a pattern here of what happens when Sarver comes to odds with a player

He blames the agent.

The Suns Lowballed Frye, they lowballed Bledsoe and when asked about it on the radio sarver said this

Sarver said something very applicable himself, but with respect to Eric Bledsoe...

It's not necessarily us to determine what he thinks is fair; it's him to determine that.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2...rver-is-not-escaping-his-role-as-villain-with

If Delusional is being aware of both sides of the story. then so be it
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Dude, 48 million is low balling the hell out of him. That was a shitty ass deal. There's no way they were getting him back for that.

And that was the point. I'm not sure the Suns really thought they were either. Paul wanted the max, Sarver set the bar really low. So he could steer them away from the max they wanted. And guess what, it worked.

So by the time the Timberwolves were willing to offer the full max (the amount allowed by them), the Suns could come in, up it to 70 million, still low balling them. We're talking just 7 million more. The Suns don't have to pay him the full max, and Paul just relents and takes it.

You call that being a good agent?

If he was a good agent, he would have forced the Suns to pay the full max, knowing they had leverage now. That they could sign the QO and there would be a market for Bledsoe next year, but he didn't do that.

That's how you negotiate in bizarro world.
 
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Does anyone really think Griffin and Uriji haven't talked? Toronto would have to move pieces to sign TT, I'm sure they'd want to discuss parameters of a sign-and-trade.

Guaranteed each team knows more than they're letting on. Doesn't bode well for Paul.
 
So wait.


You think I think lbj will go to LA if we don't Max out tt?

I figured @NoTitleTown would be an idiot. and rich might have been drunk, but the rest of you disappoint me.

Damien O'Connel said:
I mean seriously, wtf is this shit? First, if you're going to make ridiculous posts, at least spell things correctly.

Second, you're acting like we're being cheap with TT. WE ARE ALREADY WILLING TO OVERPAY. You act like 3 million a year is chump change. This will affect our ability to bring in talent for YEARS.

What is more disrespectful to LBJ, not giving his friend an asinine contract, or fielding a shit team that relies on LBJ to do everything at 33 years old?

As if Lebron doesn't disrespect the organization left and right anyways :chuckle:

Not a real fan? FOH with that. How can you be a fan of someone who doesn't want to get paid 16 million dollars per year to play on one of the greatest teams of all time?

Why was Miami successful? Because they didn't bend to Lebron's demands all the time and actually made him act like a real adult.

I'm really, really hoping you're joking with this opinion though.
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Uh i
 
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David. said:
So wait.


You think I think lbj will go to LA if we don't Max out tt?

I figured @NoTitleTown would be an idiot. and rich might have been drunk, but the rest of you disappoint me.




Uh i
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I know this isn't the route you're taking now. YOu've been complaining about Gilbert being a penny pincher for a few weeks and live in a reality where his net worth increased by 53 trillion dollars overnight.

But hey, you got me!
 
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