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The problem here is that you can't generalize how most refugees were processed since 9/11 and assume it applies to the Syrians. It doesn't.

First, ISIS was a blip on the radar for most of that period, and it was only since the Syrian Civil war exploded that large numbers of refugees have been coming out of Syria. So the vast majority of people that have been coming in haven't been from Syria.

Second, the FBI director himself testified that we cannot vet these new Syrian refugees the way we vetted all those that came out of Iraq because we had access to records, etc. in Iraq that we either don't have, or don't have cost, in Syria. Here's a link to his testimony - the clip is short but important:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ev2e7i-NZ48


So this whole idea that we shouldn't worry about Syrian refugees because other refugees generally have been okay doesn't hold up because we cannot have the same degree of vetting. And, most of those prior refugees predated the growth of ISIS, who have affirmatively stated their intention to use the refugee system to infiltrate.

But it's almost impossible for us to have fully informed opinions on this because the governement refuses to tell us what vetting occurs, and who is doing it. Is every potential refugee interviewed by the FBI or CIA? If not, exactly who is doing it?

I think the Administration has been pretty clear:

We will admit 10,000 Syrian refugees; only those that can and are fully vetted.

The clip you posted doesn't speak to the bolded condition. It's saying that we cannot vet everyone, which is obvious.

Your argument is a false dilemma.
 
The only vetting entity I saw specifically mentioned in that NPR article is the U.N. High Commissioner on refugees, i. Which i'd have zero faith. Just because there is a "process" in place doesn't mean it is reliable.

Especially when we're talking about the U.N., which cannot even keep its own peacekeepers from raping civilians.

Dude, it's two sentences after the first mention of the UN High Commissioner. How far did you read?

How could you have seen the UN High Commissioner part and not seen, "If that's the U.S., then refugees are vetted by the National Counterterrorism Center, the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, and the Departments of State, Defense and Homeland Security."
 
Dude, it's two sentences after the first mention of the UN High Commissioner. How far did you read?

How could you have seen the UN High Commissioner part and not seen, "If that's the U.S., then refugees are vetted by the National Counterterrorism Center, the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, and the Departments of State, Defense and Homeland Security."

It's what I get for juggling two posts at a time on my phone....

But then we're right back to that being an incredible waste of intelligence/investigatory personnel. Just consider what that means - we're going to need to assign ten times more intelligence professionals to Syrian refugees than we've used to date. What is going to slip the the cracks somewhere else because of that?
 
It's getting to the point of being ridiculous..

If they can't be vetted they aren't admitted; Congress is overseeing the process with the Administration. I'm not sure what the problem is?

The U.S. governors making a fuss about it is irrelevant, they don't have constitutional authority one way or another.
 
That's the part I'd need to be convinced of.

Well presumably, all those counter-intelligence professionals are doing something from which they'll be pulled to handle this flood of Syrian refugees.

What about the FBI director saying that the vetting of Syrian refugees is less reliable?
 
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FEDS APPROVE CITIZENSHIP FOR 15 FOREIGN TERRORISTS
HIDE HISTORIES FROM CONGRESS



Screen-Shot-2015-11-18-at-2.44.50-PM-e1447875999989.png


At Least 15 US ‘Citizen Terrorists’ Are Also Legal Immigrants

Rachel-Neutra.jpg

RACHEL STOLTZFOOS
Reporter

3:05 PM 11/18/2015

Dozens of the U.S. citizens arrested in recent years on terror-related charges are immigrants admitted to the United States legally who later obtained citizenship.

More than 70 U.S. residents have been publicly arrested and charged with conspiring to help, attempting to help, or actually helping terror networks such as Islamic State in recent years. At least 15 of them received U.S. citizenship after being admitted to the country legally, including one of the Boston bombers. (RELATED: U.S. Refugee Chief Didn’t Know Boston Bombers Were Refugees)

Here are five examples.

Two immigrants from Pakistan who later applied for and received U.S. citizenship were convicted of plotting to detonate a bomb in New York City in 2012, and were sentenced to a combined 55 years in prison.

Federal prosecutors accused a Somalian immigrant who became a U.S. citizen of plotting to “go to a military base in Texas and kill three or four American soldiers execution style.” The man had trained with a terrorist group in Syria and was told to return to the U.S. and carry out an act of terror.

An immigrant brought by his family from Kuwait at a young age and later approved for U.S. citizenship killed four Marines in a shooting rampage at two military centers in Chattanooga, Tenn., in July.

A woman born in Saudi Arabia who obtained U.S. citizenship and taught pre-school in Queens, N.Y., was arrested on terror charges in April. She and a friend also living in Queens pledged allegiance to Islamic State and considered bombing a police funeral. FBI raids on their apartments turned up bomb-making materials, including propane tanks and a pressure cooker, in addition to bomb recipes and jihadi literature.

An immigrant from Ghana who obtained U.S. citizenship was arrested in June and charged with conspiring to support a terrorist group after investigators allegedly found he was plotting a terror attack on New York City landmarks in the name of Islamic State.

The Obama administration has ignored a request from Republican Sens. Ted Cruz and Jeff Sessions for detailed immigration histories of 72 U.S. residents arrested in the past year on terror-related charges.
 
https://theintercept.com/2015/11/18/syrian-jews-refugees/

During the 1930s and early 1940s, the United States resisted accepting large numbers of Jewish refugees escaping the Nazi terror sweeping Europe, in large part because of fearmongering by a small but vocal crowd.

They claimed that the refugees were communist or anarchist infiltrators intent on spreading revolution; that refugees were part of a global Jewish-capitalist conspiracy to take control of the United States from the inside; that the refugees were either Nazis in disguise or under the influence of Nazi agents sent to commit acts of sabotage; and that Jewish refugees were out to steal American jobs.

Many rejected Jews simply because they weren’t Christian.

In recent days, similar arguments are being resurrected to reject Syrian refugees fleeing sectarian terrorists and civil war.

From talk radio to the blogosphere to leading American politicians, anti-Syrian rhetoric claims that refugees are simply ISIS infiltrators; that migrants are Muslim invaders seeking to establish a “global caliphate” and impose Sharia law on America; and that Syrian refugees are lying about escaping violence and are focused instead on abusing the American welfare system.

And in a rehash of history, politicians are arguing that only Christian, not Muslim, refugees from Syria should be welcomed.

Jews as dangerous revolutionaries and communists
“I have heard on good authority that an Executive order has given immigration authorities permission to let down the usual bars in favor of the so-called Jewish refugees from Germany,” declared Julia Cantacuzene, a Republican activist in New York, according to a front page New York Times article that ran on May 18, 1938. Cantacuzene, the granddaughter of President Ulysses Grant and an ardent opponent of President Franklin Roosevelt, claimed that the Soviet revolution occurred only because Communist agents had snuck into Russia to “instill their insidious poison onto the Russian people.” She claimed that the same would happen here: “Under these lax regulations, many Communists are coming to this country to join the ranks of those who hate our institutions and want to over throw them.”

During congressional debate in 1940, John B. Trevor, a prominent Capitol Hill lobbyist, argued against a proposal to settle Jewish refugees in Alaska, claiming they would be potential enemies — and charging that Nazi persecution of the Jews had occurred “in very many cases … because of their beliefs in the Marxian philosophy.” Trevor had notably helped author the Immigration Act of 1924, a law designed to curb Jewish migration from Eastern Europe, in part because of anarchist Jewish Americans of Russian descent including Emma Goldman.

Rep. Jacob Thorkelson, a Republican from Montana, warned at the time that Jewish migrants were part of an “invisible government,” an organization he said was tied to the “communistic Jew” and to “Jewish international financiers.”

William Dudley Pelley, a leading anti-Semite and organizer of the “Silver Shirts” nationalist group, claimed that Jewish migration was part of a Jewish-Communist conspiracy to seize control of the United States. Pelley, whose organization routinely used anti-Semitic smears such as “Yidisher Refugees” and “Refugees Kikes,” attracted up to 50,000 to his organization by 1934. James B. True, an anti-communist activist affiliated with the Silver Shirt movement, coined the term “refu-Jew” to mock refugees, according to researcher David S. Wyman, the author of Paper Walls: America and the Refugee Crisis 1938-1941.

George Van Horn Moseley, a retired general active in Christian nationalist groups, traveled the country warning that Jews were financing a communist revolution, and that citizens should arm themselves for a coming confrontation. He also protested the resettlement of Jewish refugees and called for forced sterilization of refugees that had arrived in the country.

Breckinridge Long, the assistant secretary of state who was responsible for a series of actions in 1940 and 1941 that tightly restricted Jewish refugee migration into America, was influenced heavily by the idea that Jews were communist infiltrators. According to Wyman, Long’s diary referred to his opponents as “the communists, extreme radicals, Jewish professional agitators, refugee enthusiasts.” After reading Adolf Hilter’s Mein Kampf, Long wrote that it was “eloquent in opposition to Jewry and to Jews as exponents of Communism and chaos.”

Jews will leech resources from America
American voices just as prominent call for Syrian refugees to be settled elsewhere — anywhere but here — anti-Semites used a similar strategy to reject Jewish refugees.

Charles Coughlin, a right-wing Catholic priest who was one of the most popular radio voices during the 1930s, regularly smeared Jewish refugees as foreign agents. Coughlin’s magazine, Social Justice, argued that there is “no well-founded reason for transporting [Jewish refugees] to America. … Soviet Russia, which now claims to be the most prosperous nation in the world, would be an ideal haven for them.”

Sen. Robert Reynolds, a Democrat from North Carolina and an outspoken opponent of Jewish migration, claimed Jews were “systematically building a Jewish empire in this country,” and often argued that Jews were alien to American culture. “Let Europe take care of its own people,” Reynolds argued, “we cannot care for our own, to say nothing of importing more to care for.”

Reynolds disseminated his nativist views through a publication he founded called the Vindicator. The publication carried headlines about the “alien menace” such as “Jewish Refugees Find Work,” “Rabbi Seeks Admission of One Million War Refugees,” and “New U.S. Rules Hit Immigration of German Jews.” Defending himself against critics, Reynolds told Life magazine that he simply wanted “our own fine boys and lovely girls to have all the jobs in this wonderful country.”

Rep. J. Will Taylor, a Tennessee Republican, argued that the New Deal showed more concern for European refugees than for the 10 million American refugees that walked city streets in desperation, according to researcher Wesley Greear of East Tennessee State University. Similar arguments were advanced by Sen. Rufus Holman, an Oregon Republican, and Rep. Martin Dies, a Texas Democrat.

Jewish Refugees as a Fifth Column
President Roosevelt, who was slow to respond to the need to accept more Jewish refugees during much of World War II, fueled the political opposition’s “fifth column” conspiracies by repeatedly warning that Nazi agents might pose as refugees to gain entry into the country.

The State Department played a key role in fanning fears. Julian Harrington, the head of the visa division, argued that Germany had coerced refugees to spy for the Nazis. Both the Washington Post and New York Times promoted the accusation.

Roosevelt himself publicly imagined how Jewish refugees might be pressured into acting as Nazi agents. “We are frightfully sorry, but your old father and mother will be taken out and shot,” Roosevelt said during a press conference.

As Reason magazine’s Jesse Walker reported on Tuesday, the press also fanned these fears. The Saturday Evening Post told its readers that Nazis “disguised as refugees” were working around the world as “spies, fifth columnists, propagandists or secret commercial agents.”

As paranoia about a fifth column of Nazi infiltrators spread, legislators reacted with a series of anti-immigrant and anti-refugee legislation. The 76th Congress, from January 1939 to January 1941, fielded 60 anti-alien proposals, according to Henry L. Feingold, author of Politics of Rescue. One such proposal, from Rep. Stephen Pace, a Georgia Democrat, demanded that “every Alien in the United States shall be forthwith deported.”

The bills were supported by the American Legion, the Daughters of the American Revolution, and a number of Christian and nationalist organizations.

The editors of The Nation and the New Republic challenged the State Department to prove a single instance of coerced espionage involving Jewish refugees, according to researcher Wesley Greear. The State Department supplied no such evidence.

As Walker also noted in his article, historian Francis MacDonnell concluded that “Axis operations in the United States never amounted to much, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation easily countered the ‘Trojan Horse’ activity that did exist. … Though the Germans practiced espionage, sabotage, and subversion in United States, their efforts were modest and almost uniformly unsuccessful.”

But fearmongering against Jewish refugees certainly influenced public opinion. As the Washington Post’s Ishaan Tharoor reported this week, a poll published by Fortune magazine in July 1938 found that fewer than 5 percent of Americans believed that the United States should encourage refugees fleeing fascism. A poll taken in January 1939 found that 61 percent of Americans opposed the settlement of 10,000 refugee children, “most of them Jewish,” in the United States.

By 1941, the United States severely restricted refugee resettlement, in part through the Smith Act, which gave individual American consuls power to deny refugee visas, and gave Breckinridge Long, the assistant secretary of state who opposed Jewish migration, greater control of refugee policy.

As nativist voices were triumphing over refugee policy, over 6 million Jews were exterminated during the Nazi reign of terror.
 
One wonders if the reason why the Administration is being obstinate is because most of these requests for information, and the proclamations on refusing to allow refugees in, something the governors have no power to control, amounts to little more than typical chest-beating political grandstanding.

Then again, they do have a right to know more about the process. Obama loves his transparency.

Also, the French are agreeing to take in some 30,000 more refugees, bluntly stating that they don't blame the victims of Daesh for the attacks:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-while-u-s-republicans-would-turn-them-away/
 
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So you're saying it's really just crying wolf?

What's interesting about that fable is that in the end, the wolf actually did come and eat the sheep.

In any case, what happened in the 30's was baseless paranoia.

This is reality.
I'm not saying anything. I posted a provocative article, haha. I actually find some issue with comparing the two situations, mainly because, as bad as it is, what is going on in Syria is not as bad as the Holocaust.

More of my argument, though, is a lot of the stuff in the 30s probably didn't seem so baseless. In fact, I'd argue it wasn't. Jews were more aligned with Communism due to the countries they came from. There was serious concern that certain Nazis would come over disguised as Jews and act as secret agents against America. And people argued the New Deal was in place to attract Jews, I.E., a leftist plot.

The thing is, all of the above were, to some degree, true. But it didn't necessarily make them a grave threat or a group of people that shouldn't have been accounted for. Yet, as a general rule, America's foreign policy in WWII was less about ending the Holocaust and more about fighting the Japanese and Germans.
 
One wonders if the reason why the Administration is being obstinate is because most of these requests for information, and the proclamations on refusing to allow refugees in, something the governors have power to control, amounts to little more than typical chest-beating political grandstanding.

Stannis, I'm not sure I understand the bolded. Governors don't have any say in national immigration or refugee policy. If the Administration and Congress permit the process to move forward, I'm not sure how state governors could stop that process.

Hines v. Davidowitz, “the supremacy of the national power in the general field of foreign affairs, including power over immigration, naturalization and deportation, is made clear by the Constitution.”
 
I'm not saying anything. I posted a provocative article, haha. I actually find some issue with comparing the two situations, mainly because, as bad as it is, what is going on in Syria is not as bad as the Holocaust.

More of my argument, though, is a lot of the stuff in the 30s probably didn't seem so baseless. In fact, I'd argue it wasn't. Jews were more aligned with Communism due to the countries they came from. There was serious concern that certain Nazis would come over disguised as Jews and act as secret agents against America. And people argued the New Deal was in place to attract Jews, I.E., a leftist plot.

The thing is, all of the above were, to some degree, true. But it didn't necessarily make them a grave threat or a group of people that shouldn't have been accounted for. Yet, as a general rule, America's foreign policy in WWII was less about ending the Holocaust and more about fighting the Japanese and Germans.

Agreed.

And just to add, the spying on, profiling of, and curtailing of activities of politically active Jews from the 30s into the late 70s was standard practice by the FBI and CIA in the United States due to their alignment with socialist movements. It was anything but confined to the 1930s.
 
Without Jews, this country would have no Hollywood, no loans and no Tay-Sachs.

So get your shit together.
 
Also no attorneys or dermatologists.
 

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