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2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

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Regrade the finalized trade

  • A+

    Votes: 20 8.0%

  • A

    Votes: 70 27.9%

  • B

    Votes: 74 29.5%

  • C

    Votes: 39 15.5%

  • D

    Votes: 18 7.2%

  • F

    Votes: 30 12.0%
  • Total voters
    251
buzzdog said:
I'm probably one of Love's biggest fans and for me his rebounding is definitely the biggest reason to give pause to any ideas of using him to get other assets.

I guess I haven't paid much attention to KP's rebounding so I don't claim to be much of an expert in that regard. I just assume with him being 7'3" and long that he's be pretty decent if he gave the effort?

But if not I would also assume that in a trade of that magnitude we could pick up some solid defensive/rebounding help if we aimed to do so. Achieving balance and getting the proper role players who fit together would be extremely important in such a move.
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I’m with you, I just think that if we were to acquire Porzingis, Tristan is the more logical player to be shipped out instead of Love. Porzingis’s game is versatile enough where it makes more sense to play him at center, and keep Love at PF.
 
shoes22 said:
I'm not seeing that. Porzingis and Love are completely different kinds of players. Love is an elite rebounder, and rebounding is the worst part of Porzingis's game.
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They're only similar offensively.

Defensively they couldn't be more different. Love dominates the defensive boards. Porzingis is very poor in this area, but is an elite rim protector.

My biggest hang up on Porzingis. He's got to become a much better rebounder. You can't afford to be so poor at his size.

This is why I am not that big of a fan of his, like some are. Not denying the talent though. But, big men that rebound that poorly are always going to be minimized somewhat.

You just hope he's not Brook Lopez 2.0 but with athleticism.
 
wremy said:
My point of the highlight is he is 21 with all the ability in the world... He is a 7'3 with the ability to stretch the floor and block 2 shots a game... We have not seen anything like him ever at his age
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Which is exactly why the Knicks are not trading him for Kyrie. He has a shot to be a legitamite number 1 option and defensive anchor. At 21, he has lots of time to grow. In 4 years, he could be the face of the league.

Kyrie is rare but there's lots of others that do similar things and impact the game. KP, on the other hand, can be a once in a generation type talent. Kind of like a KG type. I see his floor as Rasheed Wallace (without the anger issues), which is still really good.
 
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wremy said:
Porzingis isn't a C...he has played PF his whole career... He is plant enough agile to guard Green... He guards the Greek Freak when they play Mil...he would probably be able to guard KD in certain situations or at least cause him to take more jumpers than he did in the Finals
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He's a PF now because he's still skinny and needs to put on weight. Long-term, he projects as a center. He just turned 21. It'll take a little time for him to put on the weight. He's up about 20-25 pounds from when he first came in the league. With 15 more, he'll be ready to move over there full time.
 
drekwins said:
Which is exactly why the Knicks are not trading him for Kyrie. He has a shot to be a legitamite number 1 option and defensive anchor. At 21, he has lots of time to grow. In 4 years, he could be the face of the league.

Kyrie is rare but there's lots of others that do similar things and impact the game. KP, on the other hand, can be a once in a generation type talent. Kind of like a KG type. I see his floor as Rasheed Wallace (without the anger issues), which is still really good.
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Man, I think people are overrating him a little bit, TBH. I'm going to sound like I'm hater of his, I'm not. I get it he has a really good skillset on both ends.

Maybe @ACisKING can explain this in more detail, but his poor rebounding is a major concern. If he's going to become a superstar, like some think, he's got to get better as a rebounder.

I don't even understand why he's so poor at this. Is his instincts the ball that poor? Does he not make consistent effort? Because he is 7-3, and he doesn't move a like a slug.

I get why Brook Lopez sucks as a rebounder. He's not very quick, and guys easily beat him to the spots quicker than him.

Just going deeper into Porzingis. He was actually worse as a rebounder than his rookie year.

Per 100 possessions; he dropped from 13.2, to 11.0.

His rebounding percentage from 14% to 11% (ouch)... He's a pretty good offensive rebounder, but he's even dropped in that regard, some.

And his impact on both ends, thus far, has been meh....

His actual efficiency isn't that great... I get it, he's just 21, but man, people are making some drastic proclamations of how good he is suddenly.

To even compare him to Irving right now, is insane. Does he have more upside? Maybe, but we've not come close, at all, to seeing it.

To even think he's as good as Irving right now, is a far, far cry from reality.

His rebounding is in the Al Horford category, which is not that good.
 
If I was the knicks I wouldn't write off a Kyrie for Porzingis move. Talent wise Kyrie is a finished product,,,Zingis has more untapped potential.
Thing is with the knicks you have to think of Kyrie's draw to other players in the league. Would Butler or other big time players follow Kyrie to the Big Apple.?
Its something to consider if your the knicks gm. Kyrie could be a huge charismatic draw for the team while they rebuild as well.
The knicks may have written off making a Zinger for Irving trade but I think it's a mistake for them not to consider this deal.
 
wremy said:
Back to the main topic...I believe ultimately Kyrie is a Sun.. Where he never makes the playoffs and bolts when his contract is up
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If Kyrie goes west, he also has aloooot of competition at point guard to make the all-star team. The west is stacked with good combo guards.
 
godfather said:
Man, I think people are overrating him a little bit, TBH. I'm going to sound like I'm hater of his, I'm not. I get it he has a really good skillset on both ends.

Maybe @ACisKING can explain this in more detail, but his poor rebounding is a major concern. If he's going to become a superstar, like some think, he's got to get better as a rebounder.

I don't even understand why he's so poor at this. Is his instincts the ball that poor? Does he not make consistent effort? Because he is 7-3, and he doesn't move a like a slug.

I get why Brook Lopez sucks as a rebounder. He's not very quick, and guys easily beat him to the spots quicker than him.

Just going deeper into Porzingis. He was actually worse as a rebounder than his rookie year.

Per 100 possessions; he dropped from 13.2, to 11.0.

His rebounding percentage from 14% to 11% (ouch)... He's a pretty good offensive rebounder, but he's even dropped in that regard, some.

And his impact on both ends, thus far, has been meh....

His actual efficiency isn't that great... I get it, he's just 21, but man, people are making some drastic proclamations of how good he is suddenly.

To even compare him to Irving right now, is insane. Does he have more upside? Maybe, but we've not come close, at all, to seeing it.

To even think he's as good as Irving right now, is a far, far cry from reality.

His rebounding is in the Al Horford category, which is not that good.
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He needs to improve his rebounding but that is his least valuable asset too me... Too match Love with a shotblocking big that also stretches the floor even more for LBJ and Rose to penetrate would be huge.. He has never played with a playmaker like LBJ.. People say how great Jordan would be if not for his bat offensive game and FT shooting... Well KP is as good of a shotblocker with unlimited offensive ability .. He certainly has room to grow but that is the best part about him... Can you imagine a day where he is a possible 48-40-85 guy at 7'3 while blocking over 2 shots a game.. While avg 22-9 at age 23 or so
 
WorldFreeB said:
If I was the knicks I wouldn't write off a Kyrie for Porzingis move. Talent wise Kyrie is a finished product,,,Zingis has more untapped potential.
Thing is with the knicks you have to think of Kyrie's draw to other players in the league. Would Butler or other big time players follow Kyrie to the Big Apple.?
Its something to consider if your the knicks gm. Kyrie could be a huge charismatic draw for the team while they rebuild as well.
The knicks may have written off making a Zinger for Irving trade but I think it's a mistake for them not to consider this deal.
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This is a huge factor that people are not thinking about.

-It is almost a foregone conclusion that Kyrie and Butler want to and will play together....
-Butler did not choose to play in Minneapolis.
-The Knick are one of the teams Kyrie WANTS to be traded to.
-The east is WEAK and much easier to make it to the ALL-STAR game than in the west for both Kyrie and Butler.
-Playing in NY is supposed to do wonders for your brand.

All those factors HAVE TO be considered.


I understand that I might be simplyfing this a little too much, but to me I see this as silly as saying back then: "I wouldn't trade Zydrunas Ilgauskas for a Scotty Pippen, or Allen Iverson." lol. I would in a heartbeat.
 
wremy said:
He needs to improve his rebounding but that is his least valuable asset too me...
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How? That's one of the most important factors for a big man. That's almost, the equivalent to being a poor defensive player for a guard. And isn't one the reasons KP is so intriguing is because of his defensive upside.

When you're giving up extra possessions on offense; that's a big deal.


wremy said:
Too match Love with a shotblocking big that also stretches the floor even more for LBJ and Rose to penetrate would be huge.. He has never played with a playmaker like LBJ.. People say how great Jordan would be if not for his bat offensive game and FT shooting...
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I get that, but still isn't that appealing to me, when losing a player like Irving. And Rose as our starting point guard? Goodness, that's depressing me already.

wremy said:
Well KP is as good of a shotblocker with unlimited offensive ability .. He certainly has room to grow but that is the best part about him... Can you imagine a day where he is a possible 48-40-85 guy at 7'3 while blocking over 2 shots a game.. While avg 22-9 at age 23 or so
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Where is this unlimited offensive ability? His TS% is in the lower 50%, which is rather poor.

He's not even come close, at all, to suggesting he can be an elite scorer in this league. In fact, the odds he will are probably not that high.

All he's shown right now is to have a rare skillset for his size. He's 7-3, athletic, with range on his shot.

That doesn't mean he'll become an elite scorer.

He'll always have a mismatch skill, which is great and will allow him to be effective in a big way in this league.

However, that doesn't mean he's going to light it up offensively even close to a player like Kyrie's talent.

Basically, we're going off hype and perception with KP; more so than any glimpse showing he can be remotely this type of player yet.

Not suggesting he isn't good, or won't get better. But the question is how good will he be? And there's more question marks than answers right now.

He's not KAT; not even remotely close.
 
KP wouldn't need to be an elite rebounder on this team. He'd be replacing TT in the starting lineup. What we give up in rebounding we'd replace with elite rim protection. Kevin Love is an elite rebounder and LeBron is a good rebounder too. KP is also a much bigger offensive threat than Thompson. While having him in the starting lineup would make our rebounding worse he would improve our team in enough aspects to more than make up for it.
 
bboy said:
NY is not trading Porzingas...
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Good. I don't want him or Irving anyways. Not unless they'll throw unprotected draft picks on the table (they'd never do that).

I think KP for Kyrie is a clear downgrade; with Rose being our starting point guard. That doesn't make us better at all. We're worse.
 
http://terezowens.com/theres-another-reason-kyrie-irving-allegedly-wants-out-of-cleveland/
Many are still speculating over what the real reason is behind Kyrie Irving wanting out of Cleveland. The timing is strange, and no one saw the signs coming, not even LeBron, as the media claims. Our story is LeBron knew this was gong to happen. This reason may make sense if you believe our source, who tells us, “Word is Kyrie wants a trade because LeBron banged his girl, it’s all hush hush right now, but Kryie is over LeBron, and really wants nothing to do with him at this point” says our source. This definitely sounds plausible, and we know there have always been rumors about LeBron’s exploits with women not named Savannah.
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LeBron Delonte'ing Kyrie. Creative.
 
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