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2019 NBA Draft

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I'mWithDan said:
Defense is certainly a concern with Barrett but I also just hate Duke's system.....or should I say non system. It was the same problem I had last year with Bagley. Everything they did on D made absolutely no sense and it made it harder to evaluate Bagley specifically. But yes, I think that is certainly the big knock on him at this point.....he seems to only be hanging out around the paint to get defensive rebounds and push the ball. He isn't necessarily engaged on that end so far. I was hoping the Kentucky game would have been closer to see how he would react to possession by possession basketball, against high level comp, early in the year.
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Duke played zone last year because Bagley couldn't/wouldn't do anything else.

This year they are playing man. No reason we shouldn't be able to get a good defensive eval of these guys.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
He can only defend in Isolation. He can't defend the PnR, gets blown by at times, he is clueless off the ball, doesn't close well on shooters, has weak post defense...I mean, I want my 6'8 1st overall pick to at least be a good perimeter defender.
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He has defended well at all levels to this point.....and he is hyper competitive. I've been disappointed with him on that end through 2 games but there's a lot of tape of him out there at All-Star / EYBL / U-19 defending really well against high level players. Hopefully he shows more of that as they play close games.

Currently, he only cares about DREB to transition to offense but that could be a result of Duke trying to save his legs on D, a function of how terrible the competition has been in the first games or just Coach K never having a true plan on that end.
 
I'mWithDan said:
Barrett is 56% EFG after two games.....how is he struggling to score / create efficiently? At high volume, those are marks only absolutely elite wings / guards can hit in the NBA. If his volume drags down and his efficiency sticks, then sure.

But even dropping down to the college level, only 20 college wings / guards have ever hit the 25PTS /56 EFG split (Notables being Steph, Beasley, Heild) with a minimum of 20 games played. If you get in to the 850 PTS+ mark, where Barrett will certainly have the games to qualify for, only 8 players in NCAA history have ever done that from a wing or guard position. If you add in Barrett's assists, only 2 players have ever done 25 PPG / 4 AST / 56 EFG. The assist numbers with the scoring efficiency is what makes Barrett truly elite for a wing or guard. He'd be the first Freshman to accomplish even 20 / 4 / 55 if his scoring drops considerably. There's really no context for his high volume efficiency + his assist generation at this point. They'll get in to the meat of their schedule in a few weeks and we'll have a better sense but if Barrett were on any other team doing this, it would be insane to even think about.

Defense is certainly a concern with Barrett but I also just hate Duke's system.....or should I say non system. It was the same problem I had last year with Bagley. Everything they did on D made absolutely no sense and it made it harder to evaluate Bagley specifically. But yes, I think that is certainly the big knock on him at this point.....he seems to only be hanging out around the paint to get defensive rebounds and push the ball. He isn't necessarily engaged on that end so far. I was hoping the Kentucky game would have been closer to see how he would react to possession by possession basketball, against high level comp, early in the year.
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Typically players are at their most efficient in blowout wins, which is the main source of my concern. Yesterday's game against an ultra-undersized Army team should've been an easy opportunity for him to pad his efficiency, but instead he was just ok overall, and worse-than-ok in the first half. Eventually Duke will have games where they "only" score 70 points or so...what will his efficiency look like in those games? If he's still chugging along north of 20 ppg and 55% true shooting halfway through the season, that will change my opinion.
 
Derek said:
Duke played zone last year because Bagley couldn't/wouldn't do anything else.
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Last year, there were long stretches of games where Bagley was defending the other teams' guard or wing. There was no good explanation for it either. They did certainly zone a lot but I remember the UNC game specifically last year where they had him marking Pinson 20 feet out on the perimeter for no reason. No one could figure out why they were doing this.

Derek said:
This year they are playing man. No reason we shouldn't be able to get a good defensive eval of these guys.
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I hope so. I also hope Duke plays 5-6 tight games in the regular season. I want to see how all of these guys defend and score with significantly more pressure / gravity on them.
 
I'mWithDan said:
Little has such a great shooting motion for his body type / profile.

Will be interested to see how he develops as the year goes on.

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Love him as a prospect, so much upside and a really good floor. He's also strong as a bull and plays extremely hard, and unlike Zion and Barret and Reddish is a fucking demon on defense. The "this guy can be Kawhi Leonard" takes have been around for a couple of years and they never really truly fit. Little fits that decription, imo. He has everything you'd want from an elite 2 way player.

He's not the type of playmaker that Barrett or Zion are and his feel for the game still has a ways to grow, but man... Everything is just in place for this kid to become an elite impact player in the pros.
 
I'mWithDan said:
Last year, there were long stretches of games where Bagley was defending the other teams' guard or wing. There was no good explanation for it either. They did certainly zone a lot but I remember the UNC game specifically last year where they had him marking Pinson 20 feet out on the perimeter for no reason. No one could figure out why they were doing this.



I hope so. I also hope Duke plays 5-6 tight games in the regular season. I want to see how all of these guys defend and score with significantly more pressure / gravity on them.
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You don't have to tell me what Duke did last year, I'm well aware of it. I have direct quotes from a top assistant that claimed everything they did defensively was to hide Bagley's deficiencies/unwillingness on that end.
 
InBoobieWeTrust said:
I know for an undisputed fact that there are several teams around the league that have Zion heads and shoulders above Barrett.

There are some teams that like Barrett more too, but there are GM's and league execs out there calling Zion the "surest thing since Anthony Davis".

Acting like it's undisputed, as said by another post above me, is a nonsensical hot take. There is absolutely a legitimate debate to be had. There are execs that think Cam Reddish's game will translate the best of all and have him at #1 on their board right now.


Also, let's make that bet right now. I love bets where we raise money for RCF>

$25. I say Zion goes before Barrett. You say Barrett goes before Zion. Loser donates the $25 directly to RCF. We have a bet?
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Word, I'm down. You're the moderator so figure out how to save this post just so I don't forget lol.. Again, only cancellation being that either one of them suffers a major injury (as in, misses the rest of the season).



Also, whole-heartedly agree on Reddish. If you look back several pages I said that Reddish is the one not getting talked about enough. People think I'm crazy but I think he can be a BETTER version of Jayson Tatum (his shot in college is already better, doesn't quite have the speed/slashing ability Tatum had though). I love his game. Legitimate 6'8", great looking jumper and very consistent from the 3 point line, above average athlete. Terrific, terrific prospect. Would not be mad AT ALL if he's the guy we end up with, his game is going to translate immediately to the league.
 
CavsFan07 said:
Word, I'm down. You're the moderator so figure out how to save this post just so I don't forget lol.. Again, only cancellation being that either one of them suffers a major injury (as in, misses the rest of the season).



Also, whole-heartedly agree on Reddish. If you look back several pages I said that Reddish is the one not getting talked about enough. People think I'm crazy but I think he can be a BETTER version of Jayson Tatum (his shot in college is already better, doesn't quite have the speed/slashing ability Tatum had though). I love his game. Legitimate 6'8", great looking jumper and very consistent from the 3 point line, above average athlete. Terrific, terrific prospect. Would not be mad AT ALL if he's the guy we end up with, his game is going to translate immediately to the league.
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I wanna make a bet too.

And Reddish actually reminds me of Paul George the most.
 
CavsFan07 said:
Word, I'm down. You're the moderator so figure out how to save this post just so I don't forget lol.. Again, only cancellation being that either one of them suffers a major injury (as in, misses the rest of the season).



Also, whole-heartedly agree on Reddish. If you look back several pages I said that Reddish is the one not getting talked about enough. People think I'm crazy but I think he can be a BETTER version of Jayson Tatum (his shot in college is already better, doesn't quite have the speed/slashing ability Tatum had though). I love his game. Legitimate 6'8", great looking jumper and very consistent from the 3 point line, above average athlete. Terrific, terrific prospect. Would not be mad AT ALL if he's the guy we end up with, his game is going to translate immediately to the league.
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I’ll save it. And I’m fine with that condition.

I like Reddish a lot too. I just have been so impressed at how much of an alpha dog Zion has played like on the floor. Reddish has taken a natural step behind the other two...and that does slightly concern me...I think he is going to be excellent regardless but the Cavs are gonna be in the market for the future alpha dog of the franchise and that’s why Zion is my guy. I feel like Barrett has tried to go out of his way to assert himself as the alpha but Zion has just been being himself and naturally just seems like “the guy” for that team.

Even when Barrett does something good I just personally automatically think ”Nice play RJ....but you shoulda given it to Zion”.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
I wanna make a bet too.

And Reddish actually reminds me of Paul George the most.
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I didn't pay a lot of attention to George in college but his scouting report could have been pasted in to Reddish's for me:

"Lacks a great handle which limits his overall game, as practically all of his baskets come from spotting up, good position down low, or in transition .."

Reddish will have a high volume of 3's on his resume, which will be nice to evaluate his shooting at the next level but I just really worry he's not going to develop the weaker aspects of his game because he has two elite offensive options that will shoulder the creating load.

Reddish is the guy I can likely be the most wrong about....but I just want to see him do NBA things off the dribble before I consider him as high as some others are. I like him more after seeing some college tape but I just wish I could see him in a leading role for the purposes of evaluation.
 
I'mWithDan said:
I didn't pay a lot of attention to George in college but his scouting report could have been pasted in to Reddish's for me:

"Lacks a great handle which limits his overall game, as practically all of his baskets come from spotting up, good position down low, or in transition .."

Reddish will have a high volume of 3's on his resume, which will be nice to evaluate his shooting at the next level but I just really worry he's not going to develop the weaker aspects of his game because he has two elite offensive options that will shoulder the creating load.

Reddish is the guy I can likely be the most wrong about....but I just want to see him do NBA things off the dribble before I consider him as high as some others are. I like him more after seeing some college tape but I just wish I could see him in a leading role for the purposes of evaluation.
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I kinda like Cam's handle to be honest. I think he can create off the dribble pretty well and is smooth doing so. I like that he can finish smoothly with both hands and he has no tunnel vision when he attacks the basket which allows him to make the correct pass or adjustment most of the time because of his passing ability.

I just think that they compare because of their demeanour, size, shooting, smoothness, defense...etc. I think that Cam is more advanced as a shooter, passer and a ball handler. He is not just a spot up guy...he can come off screens and shoot off the dribble pretty effortlessly.
 
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I'mWithDan said:
I didn't pay a lot of attention to George in college but his scouting report could have been pasted in to Reddish's for me:

"Lacks a great handle which limits his overall game, as practically all of his baskets come from spotting up, good position down low, or in transition .."

Reddish will have a high volume of 3's on his resume, which will be nice to evaluate his shooting at the next level but I just really worry he's not going to develop the weaker aspects of his game because he has two elite offensive options that will shoulder the creating load.

Reddish is the guy I can likely be the most wrong about....but I just want to see him do NBA things off the dribble before I consider him as high as some others are. I like him more after seeing some college tape but I just wish I could see him in a leading role for the purposes of evaluation.
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FYI, here are a couple quotes from a couple different Reddish scouting reports:
Natural offensive creator. Can control his defender on the perimeter, allowing him to get where he wants off the dribble ... Smooth when changing directions with the ball ... Very quick with the ball ... Shifts into another gear when driving, allowing him to get low and beat his man almost at will … Great at drawing fouls.

He owns legitimate guard skills, handles well, and can make plays for himself and others both in the open floor as well as off ball-screens.
 
I'mWithDan said:
I like that he has an incredibly high floor and an advanced set of NBA moves at 18. Plug him in, he's at worst a good starter at the next level, with the potential to be a #1 scorer.

His shooting is fine.....and now we've gone from "he can't shoot at all" takes to "he's a streaky 3PT shooter". He's passable as a shooter with steady improvement as he has aged. He should be fine at the next level in the "keep defenders honest" category.

I also think you can mistake methodical for a weak first step. Luka didn't have a great first step but he understood angles, change of speed, direction, etc....Barrett is no different IMO. His first step doesn't wow you but you keep thinking "how does this guy keep getting to the rim?".
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What kind of advanced NBA moves? You mean his finishing? because other than that, his dribbling and how he gets to the rim is pretty basic? He has that hop step gather that he likes to do.

He is a streaky college 3pt shooter. There is a difference. I can't confidently say that he won't be a bad 3pt shooter in the NBA you know? who knows...I just think that his game will be pretty reliant on his 3pt shot, and I can't confidently say that he will become a good 3pt shooter.

Luka and Barrett are completely different players. I agree wit your assessment of Luka, but I don't see how that applies to Barrett. Barrett isn't and will never be the playmaker that Luka is. Luka gets to his spots because he knows how to run the PnR to perfection. His Pace and understanding of the game allows him to do that. I don't see that with Barrett...he doesn't look like a very good PnR player.

Barrett gets to the rim because he wants to get to the rim and he is strong and tall enough to finish over players. He doesn't break down the defense.
 
Derek said:
FYI, here are a couple quotes from a couple different Reddish scouting reports:
Natural offensive creator. Can control his defender on the perimeter, allowing him to get where he wants off the dribble ... Smooth when changing directions with the ball ... Very quick with the ball ... Shifts into another gear when driving, allowing him to get low and beat his man almost at will … Great at drawing fouls.

He owns legitimate guard skills, handles well, and can make plays for himself and others both in the open floor as well as off ball-screens.
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Through 2 college games, 21 of his 35 attempts are from 3. Of those 21 attempts, only 1 make was a non catch and shoot attempt.

He's 5/14 from 2 and his 5 made 2 point field goals have this on his sheet:

Secondary transition, hard dribble left, lefty finish (+).
Steal, uncontested transition dunk.
Early set initiation, hard dribble left, righty finish through contact (++).
Baseline dribble cut off, rerouted, didn't finish over contest, put back his miss.
3 on 2 with defensive trail, baby floater over shorter guard.

The two (+) moves are marked in his dribbling chart as above average, per this scout. (++) in these dribbling charts would be an NBA move. He had one move (++), as the finish through contact shows the type of strength scouts want to see in wings with attacking aspirations.

So, I mean.....two above average moves in two games doesn't necessarily show off he has legitimate guard handles. Small sample size no doubt but he projects as a secondary scoring option at the next level. That isn't a knock, as Klay Thompson is a similar profile, it's just the reality for him at this point. For bad teams with an established #1, he's the perfect profile of player but I would really have reservations about him as a #1 on a bad team. I just don't think he's that guy.
 
I'mWithDan said:
Through 2 college games, 21 of his 35 attempts are from 3. Of those 21 attempts, only 1 make was a non catch and shoot attempt.

He's 5/14 from 2 and his 5 made 2 point field goals have this on his sheet:

Secondary transition, hard dribble left, lefty finish (+).
Steal, uncontested transition dunk.
Early set initiation, hard dribble left, righty finish through contact (++).
Baseline dribble cut off, rerouted, didn't finish over contest, put back his miss.
3 on 2 with defensive trail, baby floater over shorter guard.

The two (+) moves are marked in his dribbling chart as above average, per this scout. (++) in these dribbling charts would be an NBA move. He had one move (++), as the finish through contact shows the type of strength scouts want to see in wings with attacking aspirations.

So, I mean.....two above average moves in two games doesn't necessarily show off he has legitimate guard handles. Small sample size no doubt but he projects as a secondary scoring option at the next level. That isn't a knock, as Klay Thompson is a similar profile, it's just the reality for him at this point. For bad teams with an established #1, he's the perfect profile of player but I would really have reservations about him as a #1 on a bad team. I just don't think he's that guy.
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Same reservations, but talk about high floor...he's got that for sure. Seems like the perfect high-IQ + floor spacer + ultra-switchable defender kind of guy every team wants in their starting lineup these days. Just not sure what his ceiling is, given that he hasn't shown much ability to collapse the defense yet, and he's one of the oldest guys in his class.
 
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