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2019 NBA Draft

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I'mWithDan said:
Through 2 college games, 21 of his 35 attempts are from 3. Of those 21 attempts, only 1 make was a non catch and shoot attempt.

He's 5/14 from 2 and his 5 made 2 point field goals have this on his sheet:

Secondary transition, hard dribble left, lefty finish (+).
Steal, uncontested transition dunk.
Early set initiation, hard dribble left, righty finish through contact (++).
Baseline dribble cut off, rerouted, didn't finish over contest, put back his miss.
3 on 2 with defensive trail, baby floater over shorter guard.

The two (+) moves are marked in his dribbling chart as above average, per this scout. (++) in these dribbling charts would be an NBA move. He had one move (++), as the finish through contact shows the type of strength scouts want to see in wings with attacking aspirations.

So, I mean.....two above average moves in two games doesn't necessarily show off he has legitimate guard handles. Small sample size no doubt but he projects as a secondary scoring option at the next level. That isn't a knock, as Klay Thompson is a similar profile, it's just the reality for him at this point. For bad teams with an established #1, he's the perfect profile of player but I would really have reservations about him as a #1 on a bad team. I just don't think he's that guy.
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I guess I'm not putting any stock at all into their college performances so far. Far too small of a sample size to be on my radar.

My concerns with Reddish are more related to shot selection and motor.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Luka and Barrett are completely different players. I agree wit your assessment of Luka, but I don't see how that applies to Barrett. Barrett isn't and will never be the playmaker that Luka is. Luka gets to his spots because he knows how to run the PnR to perfection. His Pace and understanding of the game allows him to do that. I don't see that with Barrett...he doesn't look like a very good PnR player.

Barrett gets to the rim because he wants to get to the rim and he is strong and tall enough to finish over players. He doesn't break down the defense.
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I'll clarify......obviously Luka and Barrett are different prospects but I am talking about their profile.

They were / are both really high floor guys with + upside and impeccable amateur credentials. Both played really well across the board in important high level competitions (FIBA, Euroleague, Hoops Summit, EYBL, etc.) and at an age younger than most of their peers. That profile mix of youth / accomplishment / floor / upside is really rare. They're also similar in that their lack of elite measureables stuck them just below that top prospect tier when looking at the 100 point scale.

They're both, to me, crafty dribblers. Harden was similar but with a better first step. But typically, those guys succeed at the next level because they have a variety of moves they are comfortable executing in games, against good competition....it's that variety that allows them to react to and counter and makes it tougher to try to funnel them to a spot.....and while he (RJ) doesn't have an elite first step, he does have (bordering on elite) stop and start off the bounce...especially through contact. He already has a few of those moves on tape at Duke, where he slows, splits the double team and then thrusts through contact and to the other side of the rim.

I honestly think his stride length is what fucks people up who don't see his NBA burst. The ground he covers, looks really unnatural but that stride length is what makes his euro, hop and (on occasion) step backs so effective. Luka is a little more fluid but his stride length is very similar....where it doesn't look "quick" but he is able to get to his spots.....Harden, additionally, is the master of stride length (elite Euro).
 
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I think a thing people tend to overlook with regards to Barrett's ability to drive to the rim is that part of the reason his first step doesn't seem that fast is because of how huge his strides are. It's what allows him to navigate through defenses as well as he does and it's going to be his bread and butter in the NBA. Taking full advantage of that will necessitate that he becomes at least somewhat of a threat from 3 or with a pull up game and while he still isn't there all the way I do think it's encouraging that he seems to have been working on his outside game.
 
If you want to watch a Eurokid this year one that could be interesting is Deividas Sirvydis. He is 6'8 and a really really skilled lefty shooter, also has some on ball / P & R skills. Doesn't have an NBA bod yet but wouldn't be a bad look late 1st or early 2nd


IIRC he is 17 in the clip below but is currently 18

https://youtu.be/QH9IXGwhVlc

This is more recent from his Eurocup debut, iirc he finished with 17pts

https://youtu.be/0auvWOl1vU4
 
I'mWithDan said:
I'll clarify......obviously Luka and Barrett are different prospects but I am talking about their profile.

They were / are both really high floor guys with + upside and impeccable amateur credentials. Both played really well across the board in important high level competitions (FIBA, Euroleague, Hoops Summit, EYBL, etc.) and at an age younger than most of their peers. That profile mix of youth / accomplishment / floor / upside is really rare. They're also similar in that their lack of elite measureables stuck them just below that top prospect tier when looking at the 100 point scale.

They're both, to me, crafty dribblers. Harden was similar but with a better first step. But typically, those guys succeed at the next level because they have a variety of moves they are comfortable executing in games, against good competition....it's that variety that allows them to react to and counter and makes it tougher to try to funnel them to a spot.....and while he (RJ) doesn't have an elite first step, he does have (bordering on elite) stop and start off the bounce...especially through contact. He already has a few of those moves on tape at Duke, where he slows, splits the double team and then thrusts through contact and to the other side of the rim.

I honestly think his stride length is what fucks people up who don't see his NBA burst. The ground he covers, looks really unnatural but that stride length is what makes his euro, hop and (on occasion) step backs so effective. Luka is a little more fluid but his stride length is very similar....where it doesn't look "quick" but he is able to get to his spots.....Harden, additionally, is the master of stride length (elite Euro).
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You realize Euroleague isn't amateur, right? It's more similar to the NBA than to college, let alone EYBL.
 
Nathan S said:
You realize Euroleague isn't amateur, right? It's more similar to the NBA than to college, let alone EYBL.
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Yes, of course. I think EuroLeague is certainly better competition than NCAABB but it's not the NBA. Should have cleaned up the language on that amateurism statement......just was underscoring that profile wise, both guys have shown exceptional performance, as younger than average players, against all competition levels they have faced.
 
I've ran the tankathon sim probably 100 times and gotten 5th overall roughly 99 times lol.
 
I'mWithDan said:
Yes, of course. I think EuroLeague is certainly better competition than NCAABB but it's not the NBA. Should have cleaned up the language on that amateurism statement......just was underscoring that profile wise, both guys have shown exceptional performance, as younger than average players, against all competition levels they have faced.
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Sure, but 18-19 year olds dominate EYBL every year. 18-19 year olds never dominated EuroLeague until Doncic did it. Barrett may be more "proven," more "safe" than the typical one-and-done star...but he's not at all similar to Doncic in that regard. If he wins the Wooden Award, the championship, and Final Four MVP, then this comparison will start to make a bit of sense.
 
Nathan S said:
Sure, but 18-19 year olds dominate EYBL every year. 18-19 year olds never dominated EuroLeague until Doncic did it. Barrett may be more "proven," more "safe" than the typical one-and-done star...but he's not at all similar to Doncic in that regard. If he wins the Wooden Award, the championship, and Final Four MVP, then this comparison will start to make a bit of sense.
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It's rare for a wing to dominate all competitions, even if you think Doncic reached a higher pinnacle prior to the draft (which certainly at this point, he has). Barrett has:

Runner up in HS Nationals as a junior
Won HS Nationals and took home MVP as a senior
Basketball Without Borders MVP
Jordan Brand MVP
Dominated Hoops Summit
U-19 World Cup Gold while averaging 22/8/5 at 17 years old

As you said, needs the college accomplishments too but very few wing prospects have just shown up and been the best player every time (other than LeBron). Simmons to a lesser degree than LeBron, but even Beasley had up and down moments with U-19....over the last 18 months, most every scout has watched the competitions Barrett played in and said "that is the best guy on the floor".

He has things that he needs to work on but very few high floor / plus upside guys come along on the wing.....and when they do, they are more times than not really good NBA players.
 
I'mWithDan said:
It's rare for a wing to dominate all competitions, even if you think Doncic reached a higher pinnacle prior to the draft (which certainly at this point, he has). Barrett has:

Runner up in HS Nationals as a junior
Won HS Nationals and took home MVP as a senior
Basketball Without Borders MVP
Jordan Brand MVP
Dominated Hoops Summit
U-19 World Cup Gold while averaging 22/8/5 at 17 years old

As you said, needs the college accomplishments too but very few wing prospects have just shown up and been the best player every time (other than LeBron). Simmons to a lesser degree than LeBron, but even Beasley had up and down moments with U-19....over the last 18 months, most every scout has watched the competitions Barrett played in and said "that is the best guy on the floor".

He has things that he needs to work on but very few high floor / plus upside guys come along on the wing.....and when they do, they are more times than not really good NBA players.
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Meanwhile, Doncic at 17 was already guarding Russell Westbrook. I get the comparison you're trying to make, but Barrett isn't on Doncic's level yet as a prospect, or even particularly close. That's ok, because he still has a full season to play, and maybe if he plays outstandingly well he could rise to that level. But for now, this is every bit as bad as the Zion-LeBron comparisons.
 
Nathan S said:
Meanwhile, Doncic at 17 was already guarding Russell Westbrook. I get the comparison you're trying to make, but Barrett isn't on Doncic's level yet as a prospect, or even particularly close. That's ok, because he still has a full season to play, and maybe if he plays outstandingly well he could rise to that level. But for now, this is every bit as bad as the Zion-LeBron comparisons.
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Ok, harsh. We'll agree to disagree and move on.
 
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