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(No Longer) Joe Woods’ Defense

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chrisrich91 said:

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chrisrich91 said:

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A tale as old as time.

Defense is terrible for the first two months and digs the team a hole that they have to desperately try and climb out of for the rest of the season.

Defense plays better for the back half of the season with lower expectations, and Woods gets another undeserved year.

I hope Stefanski has the stones to do what needs to be done, but I’m not counting on it.
 
Marcus said:
A tale as old as time.

Defense is terrible for the first two months and digs the team a hole that they have to desperately try and climb out of for the rest of the season.

Defense plays better for the back half of the season with lower expectations, and Woods gets another undeserved year.

I hope Stefanski has the stones to do what needs to be done, but I’m not counting on it.
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As someone who has defended Stefanski... if he doesn't do what he needs to do then he should be fired himself. Get his ass out of here.
 
Vee-Rex said:
As someone who has defended Stefanski... if he doesn't do what he needs to do then he should be fired himself. Get his ass out of here.
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Yeah, I'm in the same boat.

If Stefanski brings back this same staff next year, everyone's ass is on the line, including his own.

If he wants to attach his fate with Woods & Priefer, then so be it. But we cannot keep an above average head coach with below average coordinators if we want to be serious about contending for anything.
 
Ohio said:
Yeah, I'm in the same boat.

If Stefanski brings back this same staff next year, everyone's ass is on the line, including his own.

If he wants to attach his fate with Woods & Priefer, then so be it. But we cannot keep an above average head coach with below average coordinators if we want to be serious about contending for anything.
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I think Stefanski is on the hot seat regardless of who his coordinators are next year.

Bringing back Woods and Priefer would be just shooting himself in the foot at the starting line of the race.

He’s likely going to be unemployed if this team misses the playoffs again. They are all out of excuses at this point.
 
I have a feeling Woods and the Browns are gonna have a "mutual" parting. Stefanski respects Woods enough to not fire him, and I can see Woods "stepping down" at the end of the year. An, "I didnt do a good enough job, so I'm walking away," of sorts.

Absolutely zero intel, just a hunch.
 
Marcus said:
I think Stefanski is on the hot seat regardless of who his coordinators are next year.

Bringing back Woods and Priefer would be just shooting himself in the foot at the starting line of the race.

He’s likely going to be unemployed if this team misses the playoffs again. They are all out of excuses at this point.
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Fair point, for sure.

However, I do think there could be a scenario where we miss the playoffs next season and Stefanski is retained...but not if he's attached to Woods & Priefer.

Will be an interesting few weeks after Week 17, to say the least.
 
Ohio said:
Fair point, for sure.

However, I do think there could be a scenario where we miss the playoffs next season and Stefanski is retained...but not if he's attached to Woods & Priefer.

Will be an interesting few weeks after Week 17, to say the least.
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If we miss the playoffs next year Stefanski is long gone.

There is no excuse for that.
 
Triplethreat said:
If we miss the playoffs next year Stefanski is long gone.

There is no excuse for that.
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It's possible Watson could save his job. If Watson went balls to the wall in defense of Stefanski I'm not sure our FO would go against that.

It's all speculation of course... I do believe next year is Stefanski's last year to produce good results, and the leash a lot shorter during the course of the 2023 season if he retains Woods.
 
Stefanski is on the hot seat in 2023 no matter who the coordinators are, I agree with the consensus there. It's playoffs or bust (barring something goofy like they're 7-1 with Watson and then he gets hurt for the season and Mond comes in and shits the bed the rest of the way)

I just don't understand why he'd put himself behind the 8 ball right off the bat by retaining the DC and STC.
 
Very fair assessment of the situation:


DEC 19, 2022 1:48 PM EST

Kevin Stefanski Either Believes in Joe Woods or He Doesn't​

All of the consternation over Joe Woods and his job status is irrelevant as that decision comes down to what head coach Kevin Stefanski believes about his defensive coordinator.
The Cleveland Browns defense has played better in recent weeks and there is reason to believe it can enjoy a strong finish, but when it comes to the status of the defensive coordinator Joe Woods, it comes down to one question. Does head coach Kevin Stefanski believe after three years he's the right man for the job?
The discussion about Woods has become so irrational that people are afraid that if the Browns win their remaining three games it might save his job. The Browns have won three of their last four in no small part because of the defense. They have the potential to finish the season winning six of seven.

Critics will quickly point out that the Houston Texans are the worst team in the league and had Kyle Allen play quarterback. The Baltimore Ravens had backup quarterback Tyler Huntley and their coaching staff decided to throw the ball 30 times when they seemingly had the ability to power their way down the field at will. They simply didn't.

The New Orleans Saints are quarterbacked by Andy Dalton, the Washington Commanders by Taylor Heinicke and the Pittsburgh Steelers presumably will be rolling with rookie Kenny Pickett.

All of that is valid, though to Dalton's credit, he's playing better football than most realize. Then again, the passing game might be completely neutered if the game is playing in 30+ mph winds. The anti-dome crowd should have to sit in the stands for this game.


Kevin Stefanski isn't stupid. He is more than aware what the landscape of the remaining schedule. He's also painfully aware of what the defense has done over the course of the season. He was there for all of it.

If Stefanski doesn't believe in Woods going forward, what are three more games going to change? There will be three years of work to evaluate. And even though Woods has been shorthanded, often for the sake of the offense, Stefanski is going to make his determination as to what he believes about him.

No, head coaches don't want to fire staff if they can avoid it, but they are also hyper competitive. Stefanski wants to win. This is the same guy who was part of the decision to move on from Baker Mayfield. Mayfield, the quarterback of an 11-win team and the team's only playoff victory in a quarter century and then played through a torn labrum for the sake of the team the following season. Gone. In unceremonious fashion no less.

Even as much as Stefanski may like Woods, he's likely pragmatic enough to cut the chord if he believes it serves his interest and those of the team as a whole.

Woods isn't the reason the defense is bad. That's due to a lack of personnel at critical positions, which is in no small part due to the acquisition of Deshaun Watson, resulting in the defense being young and ill equipped. These puppies have bitten the Browns most of the season. However, it's fair to question if Woods has enhanced the defense.

After three seasons, Stefanski is going to either believe that Woods can design and gameplan a defense that can frustrate him as an offensive coach or he can't. Stefanski knows what Woods can put up on a white board. He's been there to see Woods teach his scheme to players. Upon the conclusion of the season, there will be 52 games of Woods coming up with Plan A, B and potentially C for games as well as adjustments he makes and habits he has in his calling his defense.

If Stefanski believes he can consistently beat Woods' defense, whether it's with his offense or others, the answer becomes obvious. No amount of fuzzy feelings should change that.

Should he opt to replace Woods, this is also the lens in which Stefanski hire the replacement. Find the guy who runs a defense that frustrates Stefanski and his offensive staff.

The other important consideration is the rest of the staff. No, Stefanski shouldn't pick and choose the coordinator's assistants for him, but it's difficult to look at the offensive staff and the defensive staff and see them as equal. Frankly, it's unlikely the next defensive staff will be either, but a good hire would hopefully enhance the talent of the position coaches.


Woods and his staff have done some good things. Greg Newsome's new role was met with criticism, but it's worked. Newsome operating in the slot with Denzel Ward and Martin Emerson playing on the outside is a tactical advantage for the Browns providing them a ton of flexibility. Young players have been able to improve and find success under Woods. Part of the improvement of the defense in recent weeks is because of contributions made by rookie defensive linemen Perrion Winfrey and Alex Wright on the defensive line.

And Woods did it with limited resources. But if he's not the solution, then Kevin Stefanski needs to go out and find the person who is, then provide the resources necessary to realize their defensive vision in a way Woods never could.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Very fair assessment of the situation:


DEC 19, 2022 1:48 PM EST

Kevin Stefanski Either Believes in Joe Woods or He Doesn't​

All of the consternation over Joe Woods and his job status is irrelevant as that decision comes down to what head coach Kevin Stefanski believes about his defensive coordinator.
The Cleveland Browns defense has played better in recent weeks and there is reason to believe it can enjoy a strong finish, but when it comes to the status of the defensive coordinator Joe Woods, it comes down to one question. Does head coach Kevin Stefanski believe after three years he's the right man for the job?
The discussion about Woods has become so irrational that people are afraid that if the Browns win their remaining three games it might save his job. The Browns have won three of their last four in no small part because of the defense. They have the potential to finish the season winning six of seven.

Critics will quickly point out that the Houston Texans are the worst team in the league and had Kyle Allen play quarterback. The Baltimore Ravens had backup quarterback Tyler Huntley and their coaching staff decided to throw the ball 30 times when they seemingly had the ability to power their way down the field at will. They simply didn't.

The New Orleans Saints are quarterbacked by Andy Dalton, the Washington Commanders by Taylor Heinicke and the Pittsburgh Steelers presumably will be rolling with rookie Kenny Pickett.

All of that is valid, though to Dalton's credit, he's playing better football than most realize. Then again, the passing game might be completely neutered if the game is playing in 30+ mph winds. The anti-dome crowd should have to sit in the stands for this game.


Kevin Stefanski isn't stupid. He is more than aware what the landscape of the remaining schedule. He's also painfully aware of what the defense has done over the course of the season. He was there for all of it.

If Stefanski doesn't believe in Woods going forward, what are three more games going to change? There will be three years of work to evaluate. And even though Woods has been shorthanded, often for the sake of the offense, Stefanski is going to make his determination as to what he believes about him.

No, head coaches don't want to fire staff if they can avoid it, but they are also hyper competitive. Stefanski wants to win. This is the same guy who was part of the decision to move on from Baker Mayfield. Mayfield, the quarterback of an 11-win team and the team's only playoff victory in a quarter century and then played through a torn labrum for the sake of the team the following season. Gone. In unceremonious fashion no less.

Even as much as Stefanski may like Woods, he's likely pragmatic enough to cut the chord if he believes it serves his interest and those of the team as a whole.

Woods isn't the reason the defense is bad. That's due to a lack of personnel at critical positions, which is in no small part due to the acquisition of Deshaun Watson, resulting in the defense being young and ill equipped. These puppies have bitten the Browns most of the season. However, it's fair to question if Woods has enhanced the defense.

After three seasons, Stefanski is going to either believe that Woods can design and gameplan a defense that can frustrate him as an offensive coach or he can't. Stefanski knows what Woods can put up on a white board. He's been there to see Woods teach his scheme to players. Upon the conclusion of the season, there will be 52 games of Woods coming up with Plan A, B and potentially C for games as well as adjustments he makes and habits he has in his calling his defense.

If Stefanski believes he can consistently beat Woods' defense, whether it's with his offense or others, the answer becomes obvious. No amount of fuzzy feelings should change that.

Should he opt to replace Woods, this is also the lens in which Stefanski hire the replacement. Find the guy who runs a defense that frustrates Stefanski and his offensive staff.

The other important consideration is the rest of the staff. No, Stefanski shouldn't pick and choose the coordinator's assistants for him, but it's difficult to look at the offensive staff and the defensive staff and see them as equal. Frankly, it's unlikely the next defensive staff will be either, but a good hire would hopefully enhance the talent of the position coaches.


Woods and his staff have done some good things. Greg Newsome's new role was met with criticism, but it's worked. Newsome operating in the slot with Denzel Ward and Martin Emerson playing on the outside is a tactical advantage for the Browns providing them a ton of flexibility. Young players have been able to improve and find success under Woods. Part of the improvement of the defense in recent weeks is because of contributions made by rookie defensive linemen Perrion Winfrey and Alex Wright on the defensive line.

And Woods did it with limited resources. But if he's not the solution, then Kevin Stefanski needs to go out and find the person who is, then provide the resources necessary to realize their defensive vision in a way Woods never could.
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I liked this quote from the article...
The anti-dome crowd should have to sit in the stands for this game.
 
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