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(No Longer) Joe Woods’ Defense

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So I think Woods should be fired, but I'm going to play devil's-advocate just to understand where people are coming from.

When looking at today specifically, the Browns gave up a measly 17 points, and one of those TDs came as the result of a turnover giving the Saints the ball in the red zone...

They got multiple big 4th quarter stops when they needed to. Why is this guy eating more shit on the board than the guy running the offense?
 
Cassity14 said:
So I think Woods should be fired, but I'm going to play devil's-advocate just to understand where people are coming from.

When looking at today specifically, the Browns gave up a measly 17 points, and one of those TDs came as the result of a turnover giving the Saints the ball in the red zone...

They got multiple big 4th quarter stops when they needed to. Why is this guy eating more shit on the board than the guy running the offense?
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Probably because Joe Woods has been mostly terrible in his 3 years here with a talented defense.

Stefanski has been solid during his 3 years with backup level QBs and Watson for only 4 games.

You don’t risk throwing out the baby with the bath water. Get rid of Woods. If the team is still bad then Stefanski will be next.
 
Vee-Rex said:
Probably because Joe Woods has been mostly terrible in his 3 years here with a talented defense.

Stefanski has been solid during his 3 years with backup level QBs and Watson for only 4 games.

You don’t risk throwing out the baby with the bath water. Get rid of Woods. If the team is still bad then Stefanski will be next.
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I hear you, and I agree with you, but I was specifically honing in on today.

I believe there's quite a bit of bias in these takes. Joe Woods doesn't even show up on my top 10 list of reasons the Browns lost today.
 
Joe Woods should be let go for the simple fact that every team continues to use the same elements to defeat him.
 
Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock
 
Cassity14 said:
I hear you, and I agree with you, but I was specifically honing in on today.

I believe there's quite a bit of bias in these takes. Joe Woods doesn't even show up on my top 10 list of reasons the Browns lost today.
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We’re 2 weeks away from the end of our season. I doubt anyone is suddenly gonna flip and start trashing him. People are dug in.

I think he deserves criticism for sure though I was probably more frustrated last week than this week. But fans will be fans and are 100% results oriented, so the criticism was low after the Ravens win but super high after the Saints L.

From my perspective though, he deserves to show us that he can make coaching staff changes and he deserves a season with Watson as QB1.
 
Also yes, I didn’t come away from this game thinking the defense was fine either. Extremely predictable and wasn’t going all out to stop Taysom/Kamara the way the Saints defense was all out in trying to stop Chubb.
 
Vee-Rex said:
with a talented defense.
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Hard no. It's one thing to call the young day two prospects for Ed into starting jobs talented in August. It's another thing to still promote blind optimism in December. This assumption has survived too long. And that's exactly why I've been posting the other side of the discussion.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Hard no. It's one thing to call the young day two prospects for Ed into starting jobs talented in August. It's another thing to still promote blind optimism in December. This assumption has survived too long. And that's exactly why I've been posting the other side of the discussion.
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I know you’ve been on an undercover crusade to undersell the defensive talent on our roster… but we still have a talented unit.

We’ve got an all-time DE and an elite CB1. We have a solid group of corners in Newsome and Emerson. We have a solid group of LBs in Walker, JOK, Taki, and Fields seems to be NFL caliber.

I’m more inclined to believe that Woods isn’t capable of getting more out of these players than thinking they all suck.

Myles should be doing BETTER. He isn’t because opposing teams double and triple team him more than any other player in the league and we still can’t find a way to take advantage of that. Ward should be doing BETTER. JJ3 and Delpit for all their issues continue to show flashes. They’re being poorly utilized and I’ve felt that way about JJ3 all year.

Even if this defense isn’t the top 10 talent we all thought they should be prior to the season, they should be nowhere near the bottom.

We’re not overhauling the defensive roster in 2023 because there is still a lot of talent here no matter how much you try to act like there isn’t in order to alleviate blame of Woods.
 
Vee-Rex said:
I know you’ve been on an undercover crusade to undersell the defensive talent on our roster… but we still have a talented unit.

We’ve got an all-time DE and an elite CB1. We have a solid group of corners in Newsome and Emerson. We have a solid group of LBs in Walker, JOK, Taki, and Fields seems to be NFL caliber.

I’m more inclined to believe that Woods isn’t capable of getting more out of these players than thinking they all suck.

Myles should be doing BETTER. He isn’t because opposing teams double and triple team him more than any other player in the league and we still can’t find a way to take advantage of that. Ward should be doing BETTER. JJ3 and Delpit for all their issues continue to show flashes. They’re being poorly utilized and I’ve felt that way about JJ3 all year.

Even if this defense isn’t the top 10 talent we all thought they should be prior to the season, they should be nowhere near the bottom.

We’re not overhauling the defensive roster in 2023 because there is still a lot of talent here no matter how much you try to act like there isn’t in order to alleviate blame of Woods.
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I disagree about our LB unit. They are not solid. They are mostly replacement level. A lot like our interior D-Line.
 
I, along with @Randolphkeys , are possibly the biggest "supporters" of Woods (outside of his immediate family) and I think Woods has come to his end here. I still see nothing wrong with the scheme he installed, but he hasn't adapted that scheme to specific situations, maximized the talent that exists, or even established clear channels of communication throughout the unit. For me, its like a school. The kids in class may not be ideal, and their issues may not be your fault, but if you can't "manage" them except sparingly, it may not be the best situation/job for you.
 
Los216 said:
I disagree about our LB unit. They are not solid. They are mostly replacement level. A lot like our interior D-Line.
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And we've been told consistently by some that unless you're also a top level eDGE, linebacker is a position that doesn't have much value.
 
What a disappointment this trash ass dude has been from Day 1 in Cleveland.


 
I think JOK, Walker, and Taki is a decent LB group. Not all-pro, not great, but I think we can manage a +defense with those players at the core, simply because of our strong CB group and Myles at EDGE (the two most important positions on defense).

Obviously all 3 LBs are injured now and the current product on the field is awful. But give me those 3 healthy and depth aside, I'm okay there. Unfortunately, I don't think Woods can get more out of them, and I think we're asking a TON from the LB unit because Woods is inflexible and doesn't manufacture pressure through the play design.
 
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