Congratulation Cam for surviving all season on the big club. So far you've played in 55 games, in those 141 at bats you slugged 0 homeruns and managed to bat in 7 runs. The RBI thing isn't really fair since Myles often batted before you. You managed to get on base at a .156 clip due in large part to the 4 walks you drew. You did make 1.25 million on the season, which is more than i make so hats off to you. Wish you luck in your next adventure, hopefully it's not in Cleveland.
-
Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.
2023 Cleveland Guardians Season Thread
- Thread starter Juice is Loose
- Start date
KluberSociety
NBA Starter
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2018
- Messages
- 4,349
- Reaction score
- 3,889
- Points
- 113
The worrying thing for me is more that they're not showing improvement. Gimenez chase% for instance went from 30 (with Mets) to 40 to 38 to 40 each year.
Arias went from 27 to 38. Arias's contact% actually went down year over year.
Josh Naylor had a good year but that chase% is disgustingly high.
The only one that seems to be showing some signs of improvement is Brennan but he's still chasing a ton and providing a lot of weak contact.
BimboColesHair
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2011
- Messages
- 22,703
- Reaction score
- 59,113
- Points
- 148
Improvement doesn't happen overnight.
It also doesn't typically happen smoothy either.
Mott the Hoople
NBA Starter
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,140
- Reaction score
- 4,691
- Points
- 113
I gotta say, Laureano is really growing on me.
When he was with the A's I knew he was pretty good with the bat a couple of years ago. But I did not realize how great he is in the OF. His arm is a weapon. He makes a helluva play out there a couple of times a week.
I'm glad we have some control with him. In 24, even if Valera makes the team, I could still see Laureano as one of the starting outfielders.
When he was with the A's I knew he was pretty good with the bat a couple of years ago. But I did not realize how great he is in the OF. His arm is a weapon. He makes a helluva play out there a couple of times a week.
I'm glad we have some control with him. In 24, even if Valera makes the team, I could still see Laureano as one of the starting outfielders.
sportscoach
RD's Guardians PR Man!
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2016
- Messages
- 21,052
- Reaction score
- 9,697
- Points
- 113
I think Laureano will be a platoon in 24 off the bench... He just hasn't shown to hit right handers consistently enough the last couple seasons. Now, he could earn more of course, but I am doubting it...
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2019
- Messages
- 10,224
- Reaction score
- 29,317
- Points
- 135
Just looking at some WAR numbers at ESPN now that we're about done.
Gimenez has overtaken Jose for the team lead at 5.4. Defense was the difference as Jose has better offensive numbers across the board. Jose's WAR is 5.2. In third place is Kwan at 3.8 and after that it's a big dropoff to Josh Naylor at 2.4 in 118 games, or about three-fourths of a season. It seems to me that a .306 BA and 97 RBI's plus very good defense should be worth more than 2.4, especially when you consider his ability to get big hits late, but what do I know?
Will Brennan has a 0.5 WAR despite getting 429 at-bats, probably because he only hits singles, never walks (16 this year!), and is just OK defensively and on the bases.
Amed Rosario was a -0.2 in 94 games. Like Brennan he had no power, but his bad defense at a key position made him the worst starter we had this year. His replacement, Gabe Arias, was a -0.1 in 122 games. He hit .210, led the team in strikeouts, and rarely drew a walk. He also had a lower slugging percentage than Rosario, surprisingly.
Oscar Gonzalez has the lowest WAR (-1.3) in just 52 games. He couldn't hit, field, or do anything really. Sponge Bob's game was exposed as being full of holes.
Ramon Laureano had a 0.4 WAR in 38 games for the Guardians. That's a halfway decent 1.2 WAR when projected to 114 games, which is what he would probably get if he is on the team next year. Straw has a 0.8 WAR in 145 games. That .588 OPS is embarassing.
Finally, Bo Naylor has a 1.4 WAR in 64 games despite a slow start. Multiply by two (assuming he plays 128 games next year) and that's a 2.8 WAR. Bo hit just .179 in his first 117 at-bats, but since then is 24-for-72 (.333). I don't expect him to hit .333 next season, but he won't start off like he did this year in his first exposure to major league pitching. He's made a ton of progress and I think he has a great chance of being a 4+ WAR player in his first full season next year.
Gimenez has overtaken Jose for the team lead at 5.4. Defense was the difference as Jose has better offensive numbers across the board. Jose's WAR is 5.2. In third place is Kwan at 3.8 and after that it's a big dropoff to Josh Naylor at 2.4 in 118 games, or about three-fourths of a season. It seems to me that a .306 BA and 97 RBI's plus very good defense should be worth more than 2.4, especially when you consider his ability to get big hits late, but what do I know?
Will Brennan has a 0.5 WAR despite getting 429 at-bats, probably because he only hits singles, never walks (16 this year!), and is just OK defensively and on the bases.
Amed Rosario was a -0.2 in 94 games. Like Brennan he had no power, but his bad defense at a key position made him the worst starter we had this year. His replacement, Gabe Arias, was a -0.1 in 122 games. He hit .210, led the team in strikeouts, and rarely drew a walk. He also had a lower slugging percentage than Rosario, surprisingly.
Oscar Gonzalez has the lowest WAR (-1.3) in just 52 games. He couldn't hit, field, or do anything really. Sponge Bob's game was exposed as being full of holes.
Ramon Laureano had a 0.4 WAR in 38 games for the Guardians. That's a halfway decent 1.2 WAR when projected to 114 games, which is what he would probably get if he is on the team next year. Straw has a 0.8 WAR in 145 games. That .588 OPS is embarassing.
Finally, Bo Naylor has a 1.4 WAR in 64 games despite a slow start. Multiply by two (assuming he plays 128 games next year) and that's a 2.8 WAR. Bo hit just .179 in his first 117 at-bats, but since then is 24-for-72 (.333). I don't expect him to hit .333 next season, but he won't start off like he did this year in his first exposure to major league pitching. He's made a ton of progress and I think he has a great chance of being a 4+ WAR player in his first full season next year.
PocketMonger
Situational Stopper
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2020
- Messages
- 378
- Reaction score
- 421
- Points
- 63
Hitting wise I don't see a lot of players due for a regression heading into next season. Maybe Josh Naylor only because of how well he hit.
Pitching regression worries me a lot for next season. Sophomore slumps hit our young bats really hard this season and the same could be true of our young arms next year.
Also really hoping Josh Naylor can be the first hitter not named Jose Ramriez to post back to back 800OPS seasons since Lindor did it in 2018-19. Gimenez had a chance to break the streak this season and failed. Franmill came really close a few year back as well.
Pitching regression worries me a lot for next season. Sophomore slumps hit our young bats really hard this season and the same could be true of our young arms next year.
Also really hoping Josh Naylor can be the first hitter not named Jose Ramriez to post back to back 800OPS seasons since Lindor did it in 2018-19. Gimenez had a chance to break the streak this season and failed. Franmill came really close a few year back as well.
macbdog
Resident Luddite
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2006
- Messages
- 17,020
- Reaction score
- 14,779
- Points
- 123
Before you wish this last part: list Kevin Cash's career numbers. How fitting would it be if Tito's parting gift was finding another great future manager?
BimboColesHair
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2011
- Messages
- 22,703
- Reaction score
- 59,113
- Points
- 148
Josh is hurt by the position he plays.
1B comes with a natural negative WAR defensively, no matter how well you play it, because it is one of the least valuable defensive positions in baseball.
What makes Christian Walker so special, as he is a plus dWAR player at 1B which is very rare over the last 30+ years.
Hosmer, who is probably the best defensive 1B of the past decade, has been worth -11.5 dWAR over his career.
He also gets hurt for DH’ing in the WAR department.
Why WAR isn’t the end all be all.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2019
- Messages
- 10,224
- Reaction score
- 29,317
- Points
- 135
If WAR is structured so that the best defensive first baseman in the game, who saves his team 10+ runs every year by digging out bad throws and turning doubles hit down the line into outs still gets his WAR reduced simply because of the position he plays then WAR needs to be revised.
sportscoach
RD's Guardians PR Man!
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2016
- Messages
- 21,052
- Reaction score
- 9,697
- Points
- 113
I wanted Christian Walker at the trade deadline last season....
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2019
- Messages
- 10,224
- Reaction score
- 29,317
- Points
- 135
Jose Ramirez chased 26% of pitches out of the zone as a rookie ten years ago (rounded off). From 2015-2021 he was never above 27.7%. The last two years he was at 32.3% and 30.9%. He's a full 5% higher than his rookie year.
His O-contact% in 2023 was the lowest of his career - even lower than his rookie season.
I'm hoping those numbers are the result of the pressure Jose is feeling to be the top run producer on a team that has major problems scoring. If that is the case it is hurting his production. I see him chasing pitches way out of the zone with runners in scoring position and less than two out. He's clearly going for RBI's when he could easily take a walk. I don't know if he's going for personal goals or if he just has no confidence that the guys behind him can get the runs in. Probably the latter.
Next year I want to see him get back to when he was only chasing 25-27% of pitches out of the zone. He's hitting .211 with RISP this year. .211!!! That's not an All-Star! No wonder he has only 80 RBI's in 600 AB's.
Jose is hitting .343 leading off an inning, .303 with nobody on, and .155 with RISP and two out. When there's an RBI opportunity his plate discipline goes out the window and he becomes an easy out. Whoever the new manager is needs to sit him down in spring training and convince him to adopt the Manny Ramirez approach - that no at-bat is more important than any other. He's killed a lot of rallies by trying too hard to make things happen when pitchers refused to throw him strikes.
BimboColesHair
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2011
- Messages
- 22,703
- Reaction score
- 59,113
- Points
- 148
O-swing and O-contact are numbers that peak at age 29 and begin to get worse after that.
What he is doing is not all that uncommon.
DCTribefan
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2019
- Messages
- 11,621
- Reaction score
- 10,405
- Points
- 123
But also unwelcome.
sportscoach
RD's Guardians PR Man!
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2016
- Messages
- 21,052
- Reaction score
- 9,697
- Points
- 113
Part of JRam's problem was the fact he tried to be the hero a few too many times in a sense... At times I felt like he should have been more willing to take the walk...