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Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

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It’s not Wade specifically, it’s that he’s the only viable bench front court player we have. When Wade’s out, those minutes go to Niang, TT, Morris, or we’re playing a undersized “3” at the 4.

Dean being healthy would certainly help this team, but his inability to stay healthy only further highlights how terrible the front court is outside of Allen and Mobley and how poor of a job the FO has done addressing it the last two years.

Look I get that TT and Morris might not be ideal. But the Magic are finding minutes for INgles ffs. You can't just keep banging your head against the Niang wall w/o trying someone else.
 
Look I get that TT and Morris might not be ideal. But the Magic are finding minutes for INgles ffs. You can't just keep banging your head against the Niang wall w/o trying someone else.
and its not like Mobley is killing it. Lets try someone else at the 4 and see what happens because there ain't much happening there right now.
 
Well,
JBB just simply has to go, the worst coach we have ever had and thats not an easy thing to achieve.
Koby also should go, why? He picked JBB and stuck by him when it was clear he sucked and this was after he picked another dud coach he had to fire after half a season. He is also allergic to wings, we are masquerading the 6'5 Strus as our starting SF. We have two small guards just a few years after Portland tried and failed miserably with it. Koby cant pick a coach and cant team build.
We have to trade one of the guards for a wing and probably one of the bigs as well, as currently constructed our team is a treadmill low end playoff team even with good coaching
 
We are so small on the wing compared to the Magic. We need some tall wings that can ball. If Cavs lose this series I think Donovan walks and to be frank, I wouldn't blame him. Getting outscored 37-10 is on the coach. That's just telling me you're freakin' buried and don't know WTF you're doing.
 
I never seen a guy, like Niang, play consistently terrible. And a coach, that consistently, continues to reward him with the same amount of minutes.

Only JBB can do that.
 
We are so small on the wing compared to the Magic. We need some tall wings that can ball. If Cavs lose this series I think Donovan walks and to be frank, I wouldn't blame him. Getting outscored 37-10 is on the coach. That's just telling me you're freakin' buried and don't know WTF you're doing.

It’s across the board really. Their front court rotation is Banchero, WCJ, M Wagner, Franz, and Isaac. Ours is Allen, Mobley, Niang, Strus, Okoro?

Honestly might’ve been swept if they had better guard play.
 
Agreed. Every move Koby has made back to that shitty LeVert trade has been horrible. He panicked and overpaid for Caris after the Rubio injury which alot of us pointed out on this forum at the time.

The Agbaji pick. Bad. That horrid pick kept me up all night after the draft.

The Donovan trade. Fine but the timing was all wrong. This team was nowhere close to winning playoff games. If you are going to trade for a top 15 player you better make sure the roster fits for him and this one certainly does not.

Releasing Love. Awful.

Not firing JBB after last year's playoff debacle. Unexcusable.

Strus and Niang signings. Band aids. All the adhesive had worn off those two by the end of the season.

If I'm Dan Gilbert I certainly wouldn't trust Altman to turn the ship around especially when this offseason is going to be so crucial for the future of this organization.

Yep, is there any real reason to keep him?

And I hope people don't go 'he drafts well'. I say LMAO on that.

They had the third pick in the draft. He hit on a good player with it, lol, yeah real skillful this guy

Even the Garland pick doesn't look that good now. All his draft picks were bad, or okay. Didn't knock any out of the park. Really, there's nothing he's done that I would say was real good, outside the Allen trade. Everything has either been bad, or okay.

You can make the case that keeping Garland over Sexton, was a bad idea. Right now, which player is better? It's not Garland!

Signing fuckin' Niang, this guy sucks!

Koby is a shitty GM. He's not fixing anything, he's the one that's sinking the ship. lol.

And the worse decision of all is keeping JBB. And when he quoted the reason for it, and them winning 51 games, right there told me, this guy is a loser, and has loser aspirations.
 
Well,
JBB just simply has to go, the worst coach we have ever had and thats not an easy thing to achieve.
Koby also should go, why? He picked JBB and stuck by him when it was clear he sucked and this was after he picked another dud coach he had to fire after half a season. He is also allergic to wings, we are masquerading the 6'5 Strus as our starting SF. We have two small guards just a few years after Portland tried and failed miserably with it. Koby cant pick a coach and cant team build.
We have to trade one of the guards for a wing and probably one of the bigs as well, as currently constructed our team is a treadmill low end playoff team even with good coaching

If changing the alleged “worst coach we’ve ever had” for a “good coach” changes us from a treadmill low end playoff team to a treadmill low end playoff team then what you’re really saying is coaching isn’t the issue.

I think the coach has to go but I do agree to a large extent that coaching is less of an issue than the current roster.
 
Firing JBB and keeping Koby does nothing to fix things. That's what I fear will happen. JBB gets all the blame, then next year reality sinks in, that Koby put together a team that can't go anywhere.

And JBB was just 50% of the problem. You can't cut out 50% of the cancer, and claim you're now cured.

Clean house. How does Koby keep his job? When they traded for Mitchell, they were thinking contention. We aren't contending, we are getting embarrassed in the playoffs. How does the guy that pulled off all these moves, not get the blame?
 
If changing the alleged “worst coach we’ve ever had” for a “good coach” changes us from a treadmill low end playoff team to a treadmill low end playoff team then what you’re really saying is coaching isn’t the issue.

I think the coach has to go but I do agree to a large extent that coaching is less of an issue than the current roster.
I wonder if being the East has hidden a lot of flaws in recent seasons, I do however think being in the West improves teams, iron sharpens iron etc

Mitchell will make our life easy, he either stays and we look to trade DG or he doesnt sign on and we trade him.

The much more difficult choice will be Allen/Mobley ( if they actually go down that path which I dont think they actually will) Allen is clearly the better player currently but Mobley has been talked about as franchise cornerstone by the team since we drafted him.

And then there is the always constant issue of is there actually good wings out there we can obtain for these guys
 
I wonder if being the East has hidden a lot of flaws in recent seasons, I do however think being in the West improves teams, iron sharpens iron etc

Mitchell will make our life easy, he either stays and we look to trade DG or he doesnt sign on and we trade him.

The much more difficult choice will be Allen/Mobley ( if they actually go down that path which I dont think they actually will) Allen is clearly the better player currently but Mobley has been talked about as franchise cornerstone by the team since we drafted him.

And then there is the always constant issue of is there actually good wings out there we can obtain for these guys

I've made the unpopular opinion, they should look to move Mobley.

Before people blow up at me.

I am not a hater. I like him.

A few reasons why.

1.) Fit isn't ideal.

2.) He's by far our best trading asset.

3.) I think Allen is better, and not sure Mobley ever becomes better than him TBH.

Franchise player, I don't see it. Potential all-star going forward? Sure.

I got to know what we can get for him. If he's not something that really putting us in the driving seat, then an obvious pass.

If we are going to get better next year, I don't see what other trading asset we have. I'm not trading him for something that doesn't make us significantly better though.
 
Pro
I've made the unpopular opinion, they should look to move Mobley.

Before people blow up at me.

I am not a hater. I like him.

A few reasons why.

1.) Fit isn't ideal.

2.) He's by far our best trading asset.

3.) I think Allen is better, and not sure Mobley ever becomes better than him TBH.

Franchise player, I don't see it. Potential all-star going forward? Sure.

I got to know what we can get for him. If he's not something that really putting us in the driving seat, then an obvious pass.

If we are going to get better next year, I don't see what other trading asset we have. I'm not trading him for something that doesn't make us significantly better though.
Let's don't overblow Allen. One is a center, one is not. People like you painfully still don't get it.
 
Regardless to what people may write or hint at, Gilbert must do everything he can to resign Don to this max. I don't care if they then try to trade him in a season or two... It is so hard to get stars of Don's status to play in Cleveland...


If Cavs’ collapse continues, Donovan Mitchell’s future will face new question​


ORLANDO, Fla. — Donovan Mitchell said he deserves criticism. Here it comes.

The Cleveland Cavaliers are two games away from having to consider trading him this summer, not because he won’t sign an extension, but because his joining this team didn’t work.

I am trying not to be held prisoner by the 61 points the Orlando Magic outscored Cleveland by in the past two games. This is a 2-2 series. No team has won a road game yet, and the Cavs don’t even have to for advancement. Tuesday’s Game 5 and, if necessary, next Sunday’s Game 7 are in Cleveland.

Mitchell, though, has now played in nine playoff games for the Cavs. The team has won just three, and he was really good in just two — when he posted 30 points in a Game 1 triumph over the Magic, and in Game 1 last year against the Knicks when he posted 38 points in a close loss.

In two games on the Magic’s home court, Mitchell scored 13 points Thursday in the most lopsided loss in Cavs’ playoff history. And Saturday, with his team sitting on a nine-point halftime lead, Mitchell couldn’t add to the 18 points he accumulated through two quarters. He took four shots in the second half, missed them all, committed four turnovers and was on the court for 11 of the 12 worst minutes any good Cavs team has ever played — a third quarter Saturday in which they were outscored 37-10 and stunned to the point of blank stares and few answers.

“I have to be better … it’s simple,” Mitchell said Saturday, a theme he hit often postgame. “Those games we’ve lost, I haven’t been myself. … As much of the success I get, I deserve the criticism, too, and I hold myself to that. My teammates probably hate that I’m saying it, but it’s just a fact. I can’t have 18 points in the first half and zero in the second, on four shots.”

In four games against Orlando this postseason, Mitchell has more turnovers (15) than 3s (seven). He’s shooting 25 percent from long range. In that playoff series against the Knicks last April that left such a deep, dark bruise on the entire organization, he averaged 23 points (he’s averaging 21 in this series) on 29 percent shooting from 3-point range and 3.8 turnovers per game (like he is now).

There were so, so many problems for the Cavs this week in Orlando, and they are worth a mention. But, assuming the version of the Magic we saw in Games 3 and 4 is roughly what we’ll see the rest of the series, Cleveland will not advance if Mitchell plays as he did for most of those games.

Mitchell is thoughtful, courteous to reporters he knows and obviously not afraid to accept responsibility. He also is a tremendous talent, with a closet full of All-Star appearances to prove it. Mitchell could be, if you really think about it, the second- or third-most talented player to ever play for the Cavs, even though he has only been with the team for two seasons.

Trading the assets to acquire him from the Utah Jazz in the summer of 2022 was worth it. I’d argue that point no matter how the rest of this series unfolds. Mitchell turned the Cavs from a Play-In-caliber team to two top-four finishes in the Eastern Conference. When he is on, he, and therefore, they, are appointment viewing. His 71-point game last season is just one example.

But there was an old saying about the last great star to play in Cleveland that went something like this: For all the drama LeBron James either caused or seemed to attract each season, he always made it worth the trouble. Those five NBA Finals berths and the 2016 championship erase all doubt.

Though Mitchell is never outwardly antagonistic toward his coach, the Cavs’ front office or his teammates the way James sometimes was, his contract situation cast a shadow over this entire season. At times, the pressure to win and, beyond that, to make Cleveland as attractive as possible to Mitchell so that he will accept a four-year, roughly $200 million extension this summer, weighed heavily on the Cavs at large.

But was all the internal struggle — the worrying, pressure and second guessing — worth it if Mitchell doesn’t hold up his end of the deal by being the player he has proven in the past he can be? I will never forget the show he put on the with the Jazz against the Denver Nuggets and Jamal Murray in the NBA bubble playoffs in 2020, or his performance in 2021. On both occasions, he was averaging north of 30 points with his star skyrocketing.

As Mitchell said multiple times this week, “That’s who I am,” and also, “That’s why I am here.” If so, he hasn’t done his part yet.

As a resident of a community that has poor winter weather, high local taxes and a terrible track record for attracting NBA free agents, it’s really hard for me to say there is perhaps a scenario in which the Cavs should willingly trade him and acquire an impressive array of assets, instead of ink him to a $50 million-per-year extension. And maybe that’s not even really my point.

What is potentially two games from coming true is the Cavs, as constructed with Mitchell, don’t work well enough. If they are to lose another first-round series, it will almost surely trigger massive changes throughout the organization, with every possible angle on the table.

Coach J.B. Bickerstaff, again, is not having a great series. He was in danger of losing his job early this season. He rallied the team to go on such a magical winning streak that, for two months, the Cavs were the best team in the NBA. Now, again, he finds himself on the wrong end of coaching adjustments made by his opponent (so far). Jarrett Allen, by far Cleveland’s most consistent player in this series, seemed to call out Bickerstaff’s defensive scheme in his postgame comments after Game 3.

Evan Mobley is eligible for a lucrative contract extension this summer. Orlando reserve Mo Wagner seemed to cut right through Mobley’s chest in the second half Saturday. Mobley finished with 14 points (just two in the second half) and nine boards. As a team, the Cavs finished with just two offensive rebounds. It was the second consecutive game in which Orlando owned Cleveland on the glass. Mobley has performed at an All-Defense level for his three NBA seasons and made incremental improvements offensively, but in the playoffs has been, on occasion, pushed around. He is only 22 and deserves more time for his body to fill out, but given the pressure of playing for a win-now franchise, Mobley’s value will come into question if the Cavs lose this series.

Darius Garland is still shooting over 40 percent from 3 in this series but is averaging just 12 points — with just five in that Game 3 debacle. Garland is finishing the first year of a five-year, nearly $200 million extension himself. Can anyone say, based solely on the evidence before them, that the Garland-Mitchell pairing works when the games matter most?

If we’re talking about the potential for major changes in the event of another first-round exit, there is no law that says that if the Cavs must part with one, Mitchell is the one who goes.

The Magic’s reserves outscored the Cavs’ bench 43-15, but halfway through the fourth quarter, that tally was 38-4. The Cleveland front office’s two key additions last offseason, Max Strus and Georges Niang, are struggling mightily in this series. Isaac Okoro is headed for restricted free agency, and after a nice regular season, easily the best of his young career, he is again doing himself no favors in the playoffs. Dean Wade was unplayable in the playoffs last year, and now, having much improved through the course of the regular season, his absence from the team because of a sprained knee is proving costly.

Let’s stop there. The blame can flow in almost any direction for what’s transpired the last two postseasons in Cleveland, from roster construction to struggles on the bench to players underperforming. But it’s not fair to the rest of the crew to let it flow at them, when Mitchell is not pulling his weight in the most important games either.

Of everything said by Cavs personnel in the postmortem Saturday, outside of Mitchell declaring he deserves criticism, I found similar statements made by Garland and Bickerstaff the most interesting. They both said, essentially, that when the Magic crank up their intensity, make a run and dare the Cavs to fight back, Cleveland needs to “come together” in those moments. They were suggesting it didn’t happen in Games 3 or 4.

Mitchell, in explaining what they meant, said: “I would say we haven’t done it collectively on the floor, but I don’t think as a group we’ve pulled apart from each other.

“When people say that,” Mitchell said, “it’s more so we have to find a way to — when they’re pushing us off our spots, we can still find ways to execute. … Whatever facet that means for each player is different, but I think that’s where that comes in. Being able to stick together in our offense.”

The Cavs must come together, right now, over Mitchell. Is he ready?
 
Funny how there’s still a good majority of cavs fans who don’t want to see lebron back on this team. These are the exact games his leadership is needed.
 

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