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10 year bonds.

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Mac

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Those with a finance background and have some input on the market, how do you foresee the bonds moving in the coming days?

The 10 year bonds have been going up for a week now, which is killing people like me who are trying to get a home loan. Hopefully all this bank crisis crap can take a back seat or atleast dwindle down so that the bonds can even itself back out but I think freddiemac and salliemay are really hurting me here..

Anyways, what factors do you see that will help the bonds go back down??
 
I don't see rates coming down for quite some time. Actually, if we get a good selloff in equities, rates should come down, but it hasn't been doing what it "should" b/c people aren't buying bonds. The good news: house prices and bond rates are negatively correlated, so if rates go up, you get yourself a cheaper house...

but seriously don't buy a house right now, even if it looks like a "deal" at 20 percent off or whatever, unless you have to. Lee is going to kill me, LOL. Sorry Lee, JMHO.

I am bearish as shit right now on just about everything, so definitely get many opinions.

Monstrous week for the TNX btw. NOT healthy, NOT normal.
 
It is well documented that I finance homes and follow the market like its my job. (maybe because it is) Nate, you are not exactly wrong, but you are not exactly right either. When buying a home you need to do extensive research on the area. California has alot further to fall still than lets say most of northeast Ohio. Plus, lets say prices come down in another year but rates are siginificantly higher, wont make buying in the future easier. Plus this week, congress just got rid of the dpa's (down payment assistance) for fha and upped the down payment from 3% to 3.5%. The ability to get into house is becoming more and more difficult.

Mac, the first mistake you made was an advanced mistake for a lay person but a one alot unexperinced or uneducated loan officers make. The mbs's (mortgage backed securities) do not follow the 10 year bond per say. MBS's most important componet is the yield or the spread. This can best be described as the investors required additional rate of return or the confidence in mba's which is at an all time low for obvious reasons.

Now lets analyse what is going on in the current market. Inflation is the biggest enemy of the mba. What would help us is proof that we are in a recesion, which just when you think the proof is there, bam....a major econimic report comes back showing growth on Friday. Durable Goods shows .8% rise versus consensus of .4% decline....Excluding autos, Durable Goods up 2.0% versus consensus of .2% decline. Adding to mortgage bond woes, Consumer sentiment rises significantly to 61.2 versus 56.4 consensus Completing the trifecta of mortgage bond-negative news, New Home sales down only .6% to 530k, consensus was 505k. Despite the barrage, stocks doing worse than they should be. This is a good sign.....What does all this mean?

Well, I do think the economy is in a recesion and the reports will prove that soon. On top of that the fed is concerned about inflation and has vowed to help fannie and freddie. This should all help mortgage rates in the long term even if the 10 year bond goes up. But, as more and more foreclosures happen, investors, congress and the mortgage insurance companies will repeal the low money down programs forcing you to have to come up with more down payment.

How does this effect your decision? Simple, if you are looking long term, say 10 years or more, then no problem. If you might need to get out of the house in say the next 2 or 3 years, now is a bad time to buy. But, waiting might mean buying wont be possible for the first time home buyer that doesnt have alot of down payment. In the end for every 100k on loan, an 1/8th of a point more only costs $9 more. Lets say you get 7.25% instead of 6.75%, then you only pay $45 more on a 100k loan, not really a difference maker. Making sure the time is right for you to buy is a much more complex decision than just the rates available. I hope I helped and didnt just confuse the issue.
 
Example...MBS's are up half a point this moring, (6.0 trading over the magic 1.0) This should lead to about an 1/8th improvement in the rate. Or atleast better pricing getting us closer to the 1/8th improvement. This should be the start of a good reboung week. If you want I could keep you up to date and blog a bit on here, might bore most, but this is off topic. I really do follow it about 6-10 times a day so its not hard to update.
 
Sure, that would be appreciated.
 
rates are down an 1/8th right now but the mbs are still going strong (lenders might not have priced all the gains yet)....also Hank Paulson (United States Treasury Secretary and member of the International Monetary Fund Board of Governors) is about to make an unscheduled speech on the mortgage industry. Although perosnally I never feel that the talking heads have a good pulse on the industry, the market always seems to react. Sometimes good, sometimes bad...stay tuned.
 
In theory the bond market has a negative correlation to the stock market.
 
In theory the bond market has a negative correlation to the stock market.

that is true, and more of a reality, its not a 1 for 1 corelation, but typically if the stock market is up, the bond market is down. There are events like fed meetings, etc...that can make them both move the same direction, but that is not typical.
 
Lee, what do you make of the relative bond strength during this run-up?

Strong dollar + hot money fleeing from commodities is my best guess.
 
Lee, what do you make of the relative bond strength during this run-up?

Strong dollar + hot money fleeing from commodities is my best guess.

It depends what you mean run up, but the recent bond recover imo comes mainly from a market over correction undervaluing bonds. The money fleeing from commodities never hurts, but tyically the option and commodity market always gets thiers. Those markets serve a neccessary non investment purpose of hedging risk also. Alot of the recent economic reports have been mixed, but they are not all bad like most had predicted, thus driving up the bonds that assumed future economic data was going to be all negative.

Markets are 20% truth and 80% investor opinion. Facts sometimes have little to do with where the markets are at. When your living depends on being able to accurately predict the market, this sometimes can be frustrating as hell, lol. Its like being a coach and having your income tied to victories and having drew gooden as your best player. Sometimes you think you know what you will get out of him...but sometimes it just makes you old quick...lol


Btw, for those following.....good day for mortgage rates.
 
Things starting off good for bonds, jobless claims up much more than expected, mbs responding to the negative news favorably. This might be a good day to lock in a rate for anyone reading this.
 

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