2012-2013 Indians Red Hot Offseason Thread (Bourn signed post 1940)

[Mo Fiya]

I think the Indians end up taking a flyer on Kyle lohse. If they can get him for a year or two at a decent price I think they'd be foolish not to. Let's face it, this starting rotation as stands is not good enough to compete with the tigers. If the bourn signing broke the Indians perverbial bank them I'm not a fan of the signing. It's redundant and a terrible allocation of resources. In their defense, at the very least they got an asset for below market value, but It's a gamble none less. I don't know how much they have left to spend but I believe that we have a creative front office with a plan to upgrade this rotation, and Kyle lohse makes the most sense as of right now.

 

[Gunther]

Proud to say I attended that game - easily top ten in the history of the franchise if you think about it.

first playoff game for the franchise for an entire generation.

rain delay, extra inning victory on an unlikely Tony Pena walk off.

Belle was wrongly accused of doctoring the bat. Bitch made, Terry Franc.... oh yeah, never mind...

Belle was only "wrongly accused" in his own mind. It is well documented on the interwebs that Belle was using a corked bat that day. There's even a recent story about Grimsley's step-by-step process to steal the bat from the umpire room by crawling over the ceiling tiles. I don't have time to find that one, but here's an old one where he admits it.

That doesn't diminish the greatness of the event though. Still one of my favorite all time sporting moments.

 

[JMcCurry08]

I think only way Lohse signs with Washington is if Gio gets suspended for the whole steroid investigation

 

[macbdog]

Belle was only "wrongly accused" in his own mind. It is well documented on the interwebs that Belle was using a corked bat that day. There's even a recent story about Grimsley's step-by-step process to steal the bat from the umpire room by crawling over the ceiling tiles. I don't have time to find that one, but here's an old one where he admits it.

That doesn't diminish the greatness of the event though. Still one of my favorite all time sporting moments.

I think what he was referring to the biceps point, which happened after his bat was confiscated in that playoff series. So yes, at that point, Belle had retired his corked bats. As we well know, prior to that all his bats were corked, which is why Grimsley had to put a Sorrento version in that locker room.

 

[shoes22]

Belle was only "wrongly accused" in his own mind. It is well documented on the interwebs that Belle was using a corked bat that day. There's even a recent story about Grimsley's step-by-step process to steal the bat from the umpire room by crawling over the ceiling tiles. I don't have time to find that one, but here's an old one where he admits it.

That doesn't diminish the greatness of the event though. Still one of my favorite all time sporting moments.

I think you're confused. The Albert Belle corked bat thing and the Jason Grimsley confiscated bat theft all happened in 1994.

The particular day when Albert Belle did the bicep point, the playoff game in 1995, he was proven NOT to be using a corked bat. Don't think Belle used any more corked bats after the incident in '94, because people were always suspicious of that.

 

[shoes22]

I think the Indians end up taking a flyer on Kyle lohse. If they can get him for a year or two at a decent price I think they'd be foolish not to. Let's face it, this starting rotation as stands is not good enough to compete with the tigers. If the bourn signing broke the Indians perverbial bank them I'm not a fan of the signing. It's redundant and a terrible allocation of resources. In their defense, at the very least they got an asset for below market value, but It's a gamble none less. I don't know how much they have left to spend but I believe that we have a creative front office with a plan to upgrade this rotation, and Kyle lohse makes the most sense as of right now.

Some team, either the Rangers or Nationals, are gonna offer Lohse a better deal than the Indians. I should also add that it is much riskier for a team to sign a free agent pitcher then it is a hitter, so I understand if the Indians are weary.

I disagree that signing Bourn is a terrible allocation of resources, it is actually very strategic. if we had gone after a pitcher and not Bourn, we have no depth at any position, and the DH rotation is quite poor. The Bourn signing is all about creating depth. We signed him to a below market value contract so that if we contend, we get a great deal. If we fall a little short, we can trade a guy like Stubbs or Brantley (from our newfound outfield depth) to reload. And if we fail miserably, we can move Bourn or ACab or another major piece to try and contend for a different year.

The key to success for a professional sport in a small market is having a lot of options. The Indians now have paths to success whether they win a lot of games, lose a lot of games, or are a .500 team. Thanks to the Bourn signing, the Indians have that flexibility now, when they didn't necessarily before.

 

[MattyFos.]

I was talking to my brother last night about the Indians. He seems genuinely excited. He and I were giant fans during our childhood. The 90's Indians were our life force. But we have both moved away. I've moved to NBA and NFL he's moved to NCAA. But it's cool seeing him excited about this Indians team. I hardly come into this area of RCF. Not enough DaveK stories and horse masks for my liking. But this thread is titled the Indians Red Hot off-season. I'd be grateful if one of the big Indian posters, Boobie, Pyro come to mind would give me a little summary about who the Indians signed and what it means for the team. I'm not real familiar with many of the MLB players nowadays so please answer this like you're talking to someone who watches maybe 3 games a year for the last 8 or 9 years

O/S rep for any and all who take the effort.

 

[Pyro]

I was talking to my brother last night about the Indians. He seems genuinely excited. He and I were giant fans during our childhood. The 90's Indians were our life force. But we have both moved away. I've moved to NBA and NFL he's moved to NCAA. But it's cool seeing him excited about this Indians team. I hardly come into this area of RCF. Not enough DaveK stories and horse masks for my liking. But this thread is titled the Indians Red Hot off-season. I'd be grateful if one of the big Indian posters, Boobie, Pyro come to mind would give me a little summary about who the Indians signed and what it means for the team. I'm not real familiar with many of the MLB players nowadays so please answer this like you're talking to someone who watches maybe 3 games a year for the last 8 or 9 years

O/S rep for any and all who take the effort.

http://realcavsfans.com/showthread....d-post-1940)&p=1517343&viewfull=1#post1517343

Way ahead of you.

 

[MattyFos.]

Thanks Corey, OS rep'd the other post.

 

[Pyro]

It's also in the OP, where it will be updated as time allows.

 

[Soar]

#MNTwins assistant GM Rob Antony said they also plan to stretch out Rafael Perez to see if he can start. He was a starter in the Minors

Twins signed former Indians Raffy Perez and want to make him a starter possibly.

 

[AZ_]

#MNTwins assistant GM Rob Antony said they also plan to stretch out Rafael Perez to see if he can start. He was a starter in the Minors

Twins signed former Indians Raffy Perez and want to make him a starter possibly.

Probably a good idea for a guy who missed a large chunk of last year with a shoulder issue

 

[Stark]

My God, Minnesota is terrible.

 

[Marcus]

Probably a good idea for a guy who missed a large chunk of last year with a shoulder issue

I literally just spit some of my green tea on my screen, you dick. :chuckles:

 

[Mo Fiya]

Some team, either the Rangers or Nationals, are gonna offer Lohse a better deal than the Indians. I should also add that it is much riskier for a team to sign a free agent pitcher then it is a hitter, so I understand if the Indians are weary.

I disagree that signing Bourn is a terrible allocation of resources, it is actually very strategic. if we had gone after a pitcher and not Bourn, we have no depth at any position, and the DH rotation is quite poor. The Bourn signing is all about creating depth. We signed him to a below market value contract so that if we contend, we get a great deal. If we fall a little short, we can trade a guy like Stubbs or Brantley (from our newfound outfield depth) to reload. And if we fail miserably, we can move Bourn or ACab or another major piece to try and contend for a different year.

The key to success for a professional sport in a small market is having a lot of options. The Indians now have paths to success whether they win a lot of games, lose a lot of games, or are a .500 team. Thanks to the Bourn signing, the Indians have that flexibility now, when they didn't necessarily before.

No disrespect, but the only thing i took from your post is that you figured out how to justify spending 12 mil a year on a 3rd center fielder. I stated in my post that i gave them props for [at the very least] acquiring an asset at below market value, but any credit beyond that is reaching. You defend the move by saying that Bourn gives us "much needed depth" then go on to say we can use our depth to add pitching, but by eliminating a step you can increase your chances of adding a quality piece and decrease your chances of handcuffing yourself financially. Not saying i put a whole lot of stock into what analysts say 8 weeks before opening day, but its pretty unanimous across the board that this club only goes as far as the starting pitching. I don't expect Masterson to repeat last years performance, but Ubaldo has shown nothing as far as consistent production and the other 3 spots could be filled by complete question marks.

Lets take a look:

Brett Myers: Didn't start one game, and pitched 65 innings last year.
Dice-k: 18 starts the last 2 years combined for a total of 83 innings an ERA of 6.94 and 1.6 WHIP.
Scott Kazmir: A real long shot, has made one start and pitched 1.2 innings the last 2 years.
Carlos Carrasco: Coming off TJ surgery did not make a start last year.
Trevor bauer: Made 4 starts last year totaling 16 innings in which he was able to walk 13 batters and tally a 1.65 WHIP.

ZMAC: In all fairness will most certainly be the 4th starter and deservedly so. He made 22 starts and pitched 125 innings and posted decent ERA/WHIP and a pretty good SO:BB.

It's obvious that this starting rotation is inadequate, and im not saying that bourn is a bad player or a terrible signing, but i am saying i would rather them not spend 48 million on an already solid outfield when we have a starting rotation that figures to be one of the worst in the AL.