2013 NBA Draft

[The Human Q-Tip]

Grant has drafted well so far in his tenure here, so I don't really see any reason to doubt him. :chuckles:

Grant's drafts have been good, but he'd have to be perfect for there to never be a player drafted later who outplays the guy we took. I think the jury is still out on the TT v. Jonas and Dion v. Barnes/Drummond debates. If either Jonas or Drummond reaches their potential as a C, then that'll be a pick we probably will wish we could take back.

That being said, Grant hasn't blown a draft, and has gotten productive players with both of those picks. So the bottom line is that he really has earned a certain degree of trust, particularly in a draft where there are no clear standouts, and every potential top pick has legitimate flaws/concerns.

 

[demonmt]

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that. Marcus Camby was the first 7 footer I ever saw dribble out and lead a fast break. His pro numbers may not look like much but he was a phenomenal college basketball player, a man among boys. Noel got dominated by Alex Len.

Did you watch Noel at all this year? Noel often finished the same fast breaks that he started with a block or steal. He is one of the most agile, quick, and fluid big men I've ever seen. It's honestly amazing how coordinated he is with his length. And to reiterate: the Maryland game was Noel's first college game. Attribute his performance to whatever you like- nerves, just a bad game, etc., the fact is that Noel greatly improved and sustained a high level of play through the entire season. The Kentucky game was literally the peak performance of Len's erratic year.

That said, I trust in Grant, whomever he picks I fully support be that Noel, Len...even Bennett :uhh:

 

[sailfish]

I still think this is Plan A, trade down 1-3 spots, pick-up an asset and take Len.

I think Plan B is stay at #1 and take Noel.

If Len is the guy the Cavaliers want, fine.
Taking him at #1 is a difficult pill to swallow. It would be much more palatable if they could trade down to #4 or #5 and then take him.

 

[csb669]

He is one of the most agile, quick, and fluid big men I've ever seen.

Was one of the most agile, quick and fluid big men you've ever seen. We have no idea if we're going to get the same guy. Derrick Anderson was one of the most explosive athletes I've ever seen prior to blowing out his ACL in college. He was never the same, much like Ron Harper.

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

getting Gortat and 5 would be cool if we could get Porter at 5, i always liked gortat.

still want noel over them all though

 

[Derek]

Their college careers are all we have to go on at this stage to give us any idea as to how they'd fare against pro-level competition. So again, what would possibly lead you to believe that he could be better than Marcus Camby given that Camby had a superior skillset coming out of college? He would seem to be a poor man's Camby at best.

Comparing them when they came out of college is ridiculous as well. They played during different eras against different competition. Camby stayed 3 years at U Mass and Noel was 1 and done.

Noel is a better athlete than Camby, they both share a crazy sense of timing for blocking shots.

There's no way to definitively say how Noel will develop from here, he's only 19. Saying his ceiling is Camby means that there's no chance he's better than that, I don't think it's wise to put that sort of a cap on a 19 year old prospect.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

When lloyd says something that definitively he is is usually correct. He and Windy clearly have best sources in organization.

Then why didn't Windy tell us Bron was off to Miami?

 

[sailfish]

Grant's drafts have been good, but he'd have to be perfect for there to never be a player drafted later who outplays the guy we took. I think the jury is still out on the TT v. Jonas and Dion v. Barnes/Drummond debates. If either Jonas or Drummond reaches their potential as a C, then that'll be a pick we probably will wish we could take back.

That being said, Grant hasn't blown a draft, and has gotten productive players with both of those picks. So the bottom line is that he really has earned a certain degree of trust, particularly in a draft where there are no clear standouts, and every potential top pick has legitimate flaws/concerns.

Grant's done a pretty darn good job, especially in comparison to his predecessors. Danny Ferry was ok, but Jim Paxson was horrible and Wayne Embry had a history of playing it safe...remember Trajan Langdon over Corey Maggette & Ron Artest?? smh.

That said, the Irving pick was pretty close to a no brainer. In hindsight, Thompson looks like a good pick, as the jury is still out on Valanciunas and they didn't want to have to wait a year for the big man. I don't think Drummond was a major consideration a year ago. I think their choice came down to Waiters or Barnes. There were questions about Barnes' passivity and whether he was just an athletic jump shooter. Waiters was better during the regular season and, although Barnes stepped up his game some in the playoffs, I'm still very content with Dion.

It seems like this is the year they take a center & Len is the guy they are focusing upon.

 

[Derek]

Then why didn't Windy tell us Bron was off to Miami?

Did the organization know LeBron was leaving for Miami?

 

[catfish]

Then why didn't Windy tell us Bron was off to Miami?

Something is off with this post.

 

[demonmt]

Was one of the most agile, quick and fluid big men you've ever seen. We have no idea if we're going to get the same guy. Derrick Anderson was one of the most explosive athletes I've ever seen prior to blowing out his ACL in college. He was never the same, much like Ron Harper.

Sure, if there is substantial concern that Noel's athletic ability will be diminished or that he will be at risk for chronic injury, it changes everything. However, ACL injuries are not what they used to be: According to this Johns Hopkins article on ACL tears (found through HoopsAnalyst), “approximately 95% of patients return to their previous level of activity without restrictions. In the other 5%, full return may be limited by a number of causes: pain, swelling, persistent laxity, change in lifestyle related to age, intentional choice, or other unidentifiable causes.” Noel has access to the best doctors and physical therapists, is young, and his dedication to rehabilitation is well-documented.

 

[Rich]

Katz quoted four players that all thought they could number 1 to the cavs. Means almost nothing.

 

[bushwick_bill]

I just got tickets for the draft tomorrow! Woot woot! Anyone else going?

 

[Nightperson]

YEAH GUYS we should totally devalue our assets for one year of an AVERAGE center like Gortat!!!

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Their college careers are all we have to go on at this stage to give us any idea as to how they'd fare against pro-level competition. So again, what would possibly lead you to believe that he could be better than Marcus Camby given that Camby had a superior skillset coming out of college? He would seem to be a poor man's Camby at best.

Camby having a more developed skillset (and coast to coast dribbling isn't a very useful skill for a big man anyway) coming out of college as a junior isn't a good comparison to Noel coming out as a freshman. So try comparing freshman years. Camby at 10.2 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.6 b/g, and shooting 49%. Noel at 10.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 4.4 b/g, and shooting 59%.

And, some players manage to develop offensively coming out of college, and some don't. Camby is just one of those guys whose offensive game never seemed to improve from college. In fact, his FG% as a freshman (49%) was higher than his FG% his junior year, which was only 47%. To say that Noel's upside is no better than Camby's assumes that Noel also will not improve at all offensively, and that's not a fair assumption. And that's also ignoring that Noel as a freshman shot 12% higher than did Camby as a junior.

Camby is/was long, lean, and had great timing. He did not ever strike me as a very quick guy, or someone with particularly good hops. Noel has both, and finishes well with either hand. Noel as a finisher at the rim is better right now than Camby was as a junior, which is why there is the discrepancy in their FG%.

I'm not saying that Noel is going to be better than Camby, or even as good. That's an unknown too. But his possible upside, given his significantly higher FG%, better freshman year, and ability to use both hands well, is being better than Camby. At least offensively.