2015-2016 Around the NBA

[Birdy89]

This team will be burnt out by feb

They have a young team. Everyone is in their prime, and none of them are playing a ton of minutes.

It's been so long since we have had an NBA champ that didn't have a roster full of guys needing a maintenance program that we forget this is what champions used to do.

 

[pinoycavsfan]

delly/kyrie/smith/shump/lbj

 

[David.]

Teams put way too much attention on Steph and let the others like Barnes, Green and Iggy so open that it is ridiculous. Anyway, fuck it. Congrats to Warriors for breaking the record. Not gonna pay any attention to them. Just waiting for our game against them now.

Well. we used this strategy in the finals.

Hope the guys with bravado remember that they inexplicably shot horribly when we left dray, Barnes, Iggy etc open.

They normally hit those. they are huttng them again. that strategy won't work. yea, we were up2 to 1 without kyrie and love, but those games were outliers for their shooting, kyrie and love may not have been huge pluses Bc of their defense, and gsw dominated us the last three.

Yes, we are better with them, yes,we are betterif not all players are at40minutes, yes, we would have benefited from literally anyone other than lbj producing points, but gsw shoots better than they did and 17%of the way through the season, curry is still shooting an unheard of.460 on11 3pta/ game

 

[David.]

But even when curry gets all the attention, his average3pt performance is at1.35points a possession which is absurd, andI'm sure his2pt attempts are just as efficient considering he goes to the line if you make eye contact with him.

Even when paying attention to him solely he produces what would be the best offense of all time. pressuring less and allowing him to be more responsible for scoring than he already is is not going to go well.

Last year we tried taking away Curry and making everyone beat us. That didn't work and it hasn't worked for any other team this year. I'd like to see some teams try to shut down the other guys and force Curry to score 50 (which he would if singled up most the game), but the NBA has to try something different. As it stands, everyone sells out on Steph and he still drops 35 while everyone else gets wide open shots as well .

 

[HurricaneKid]

Absolutely, Barnes will get either Shumpert money, or, due to the fact that there will be so much room next season, he could easily get 12-14 million a year.

You realize he turned down >16M/ right?

I think he fits in great at GS. But if he signs elsewhere for 4/96 (and that somehow seems likely) that team is going to be sorely disappointed. Last year he was ~#350 in USG% in the league and he isn't even all that good at hitting his open 3s (was below league avg at 34% until last night). And his looks are as good as they get.

 

[HurricaneKid]

But even when curry gets all the attention, his average3pt performance is at1.35points a possession which is absurd, andI'm sure his2pt attempts are just as efficient considering he goes to the line if you make eye contact with him.

Even when paying attention to him solely he produces what would be the best offense of all time. pressuring less and allowing him to be more responsible for scoring than he already is is not going to go well.

I want someone to give me a valid way to defend Curry. I am nearly certain it doesn't exist.

What we are mostly talking about is how to play a PnR 25 ft from the basket. Standard plays are to blitz Curry to get the ball out of his hands as he is also quite turnover prone, and to bring in a 3rd defender to clog the lane (leaving a shooter open in the corner). If you go under you might as well slit your wrists. Forget 50, he could drop 80 if thats your play every time down the floor. haven't you seen him shoot >50% coming downhill off that screen facing a C who hasn't come up high enough for long enough? The first Clippers Warriors game saw at least 6 Curry 3s just off DJ. He is such an outlier in terms of his shooting and ball handling. His ability to shoot off the dribble makes him indefensible. Dray is incredible defensively but offensively his entire package is based on getting the ball in space having a 4 on 3. There are a LOT of guys who would have suceess in that position.

 

[blommen]

I want someone to give me a valid way to defend Curry. I am nearly certain it doesn't exist.

Stick to him as long as you can, try to force the ball out of his hands and most importantly make him work on defense. The reason most people don't like guarding him close is because his handle is so good and it's definitely not easy either way. The way I would guard the warriors would be something along the lines of making sure Curry only gets to shoot contested from three, Klay doesn't get to take a three unless he has to create it for himself and you live with whatever the rest of the warriors manage to scrape together. the most important thing is to take the ball away from Curry and have him work his ass off trying to get free. If anyone else on that team has to create their own shot I'm happy, But Curry needs be locked down and contained.

We did something close to that in the Finals but we were just too fatigued and injured to keep it up, especially since we couldn't put proper pressure on Curry on offense, due to KI being out. I still think that the blueprint to contain the W's is there, there are just very few teams with the personel to do it and it's very difficult to do even if you have the proper pieces.

 

[Triumph36]

Agreed.

Presti drafted as well as one could have drafted but never was able to really put that roster together. They have never really surrounded Westbrook and Durant with guys who could actually pass/move the ball. That has hurt them. They've had different collections of guys and some talent but have failed to find that glue-guy. In-fact, at the time before the trade, Harden WAS that glue-guy, and while he's obviously become an elite player now, they miss him for his ability to make plays for Westbrook and Durant and be a glue-guy.

The Harden trade was bad in the sense that it didn't really net them anything good rather than how good Harden became. They really struck out with that trade.
Lamb being such a bust hurt.

I think it might be time for Durant and Westbrook to be apart.

If Durant was healthy I would trade Westbrook, but now you can't take that risk and I don't know if there is anywhere that would offer enough of a return for an impending FA Durant.

i've been a huge presti fan from day 1 and think he executed the early stages of a rebuild damn near flawlessly, often going against the grain regarding public perception. totally blowing it up by trading 7-time all-star ray allen for a highly coveted prospect? that takes brains, but a hell of a lot of guts too. selecting harden instead of the over-hyped calipari prospect? same thing. harden was an objectively better prospect especially for that team, but not many expected them to actually pass on evans. finding a mid-1st gem in ibaka was enormously important. don't forget how close they were to that tyson chandler trade either. how would their fortunes had changed if he didn't have the injury red flags that caused them to drop the deal? even his minor signings like thabo and nick collision were fantastic given the circumstances.

that harden trade really was their "downfall." i hated how they moved him so early instead of giving it one last go with the team as-is. what if they win a ring that season? would that not make okc's ownership reconsider offering him the $ he truly deserved? logic says yes, but then again logic also said they had the best young core in the league by a huge margin yet ownership still went the cheap route to fuck it all up. so maybe nothing would've changed. i also understand the harden move doesn't entirely fall on presti's shoulders. he can only do what the ownership enables in the first place. that being said, they traded the best sg in the league <30yo and netted what, exactly? one of those 1sts turned into steven adams, and he's been pretty good. that's it.

of course then they proceeded to s&t their defensive specialist sg for some random euro crap (read: cheap!). what else? oh, yeah, the major trades from early 2015! trading for dion waiters? enough said. kyle singler? at the time he looked like an ok pickup based on his play in detroit, then was a total disaster once he got to okc. so naturally presti re-signs him this off-season even though it was obviously not going to work out. can't forget about kanter, either. because the best thing a financially-conscious team can do is hand out max $ to a guy that is completely worthless on one end of the court. bottom line? since trading harden, about the only major thing presti has done right was selecting adams at 13. everything else has been a mess that created more holes than it was supposed to fill.

last but not least, the future! trades are an option, but as you noted, it'll be impossible to get true value given the contract/health circumstances. it's even more interesting because, well, how often does a top 5 player walk away from another top ~5 player while both are in their mid 20s? that's a damn hard step to take. should durant leave? he'd have more than enough reason to - but to go where? the oft-mentioned wizards have no frontcourt at all and the benefit of being in the eastern conf may be dwindling. is that really a better option? my guess is durant signs a 1 year deal, then re-evaluates with westbrook come 2017 at which point maybe they both bolt. sure seems like presti has lots of work to do to convince them otherwise.

 

[czvo]

Stick to him as long as you can, try to force the ball out of his hands and most importantly make him work on defense. The reason most people don't like guarding him close is because his handle is so good and it's definitely not easy either way. The way I would guard the warriors would be something along the lines of making sure Curry only gets to shoot contested from three, Klay doesn't get to take a three unless he has to create it for himself and you live with whatever the rest of the warriors manage to scrape together. the most important thing is to take the ball away from Curry and have him work his ass off trying to get free. If anyone else on that team has to create their own shot I'm happy, But Curry needs be locked down and contained.

We did something close to that in the Finals but we were just too fatigued and injured to keep it up, especially since we couldn't put proper pressure on Curry on offense, due to KI being out. I still think that the blueprint to contain the W's is there, there are just very few teams with the personel to do it and it's very difficult to do even if you have the proper pieces.

All of what you just said sounds nice in theory, but if it were that easy, more teams would do it.

Of course you want to keep the ball out of Curry's hands, but how do you do that? Have someone face guard him the entire floor? That's going to wear the defender out and it won't even work half the time. Make him work off the ball? Sure, sounds nice... but Curry is one of, if not the best player in the league when it comes to getting open off the ball. I think people forget that's what the guy spent most of his college days doing. It's damn near impossible to stop him, and this before getting to Klay Thompson.

The Cavs went up 2-1, but I wouldn't blame fatigue and injuries for their eventual failure. Both of those played a part, but mostly it was the Warriors downsizing and making the Cavs decide whether it was worth it to keep Mozgov on the floor. As Matt Moore, formerly of Hardwood Paroxysm has said, the math will kill you every time. The Warriors are going to bet that a guy like Moz won't score enough down low to offset all the threes they're going to make. And he won't.

The Cavs' best bet is to match up with the Warriors' small lineup. Problem is, they probably need one more wing that can shoot, play defense, and create off the bounce when necessary... and those guys aren't cheap. I don't think you can play Love and Thompson at the same time, and, ideally, you want LeBron at the 5 to match Draymond. Kyrie, when healthy, may be the only point guard on the planet with the skills to play Curry to a draw. Unfortunately, you can't count on him being healthy, but let's assume he is. That leaves JR, Shump and... Richard Jefferson (?) left to match up against Iguodala, Barnes and Klay. You know who would be surprisingly useful in this matchup, even though he's not near the player he was before? Joe Johnson.

All that being said, it's a moot point because even if the Cavs had the perfect lineup to match up with Golden State, they don't use it enough to be comfortable with it. The thing about the Warriors' lineup that kills other teams is not necessarily that its super small, it's that they use it enough to develop chemistry with it. The Cavs could throw 5 guys out there that, physically, match up with Golden State, but that lineup will likely be playing together for the first time. Throwing a first time lineup on the floor against the Golden State death machine is asking for bad results. That's why it's so important in the regular season for Blatt to get super creative with his lineups. If the team drops a few games because he's testing out lineups, so be it. They aren't getting home court anyway.

 

[blommen]

I never said it would be easy, In fact I directly said that even with the proper personel it's still a hell of a task to have in front of you. My point is that the moment you get the ball out of Currys hands and force the rest of the team to create they become far more manageable, and covering them becomes much easier. yes, Curry is good off the ball, but I'd still much rather have Green or Klay or someone else try to hit an open Curry with Shumpert or Delly on him than have him wreak havoc on us with the ball in his hands. Once again, this is not easy. At all.

It will take an insane amount of work and as you said, it won't work every time. In my own humble opinion it doesn't have to work every time to be efficient, it just needs to frustrate the warriors and take them out of their groove. The Warriors are an incredible jump shooting team, but being a jump shooting team they still rely on rythm. the moment you mess with the rhythm is the moment the shots start clanking.

Your point about Moz is a good one, but I still think injuries was the main problem. Sure, we couldn't get enough offensive production out of him, but Love could have if he was healthy. sure, Delly couldn't make enough of an impact on offense, but i bet Kyrie could. I can't really tell if you think that our roster as currently constructed doesn't match up well with the Warriors, but if you are I have to disagree. We are not playing as well as the warriors by now due to a lot of factors and the warriors are playing extremely well too, but I absolutely think that with enough time to gel and get healthy during the regular season we will be more than capable of beating them in a 7 game series.

As for your point about line-ups experimentation, I agree. We should be experimenting right now and we kind of have to because of our injuries. However, I also think there might be a bit of a downside to what GS is doing right now in the sense that they basically are showing the league their best weapon already, which lends itself to a hell of a lot of time for analysis and game planning and that's something I think can be exploited in the long run.

 

[pinoycavsfan]

try a 3-2 zone defense on them.. they might shoot the lights out but it would limit penetration that puts pressure on the defense to react and give open shots.. it also stops players trying to catch curry coming off screens.. let him run around in a zone defense.. no illegal picks to be set and no open spaces to pass.. at least in my opinion..

 

[Rich]

Pacers starting to come around. I really love that roster and I think they have every reason to believe they can make it to the ECF.

 

[noisymicrophone]

Something about the Rockets struggling makes me so giddy

 

[Pioneer10]

The Zinger starting to look like a ROY contender. Great draft

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[Pioneer10]

All of what you just said sounds nice in theory, but if it were that easy, more teams would do it.

Of course you want to keep the ball out of Curry's hands, but how do you do that? Have someone face guard him the entire floor? That's going to wear the defender out and it won't even work half the time. Make him work off the ball? Sure, sounds nice... but Curry is one of, if not the best player in the league when it comes to getting open off the ball. I think people forget that's what the guy spent most of his college days doing. It's damn near impossible to stop him, and this before getting to Klay Thompson.

The Cavs went up 2-1, but I wouldn't blame fatigue and injuries for their eventual failure. Both of those played a part, but mostly it was the Warriors downsizing and making the Cavs decide whether it was worth it to keep Mozgov on the floor. As Matt Moore, formerly of Hardwood Paroxysm has said, the math will kill you every time. The Warriors are going to bet that a guy like Moz won't score enough down low to offset all the threes they're going to make. And he won't.

The Cavs' best bet is to match up with the Warriors' small lineup. Problem is, they probably need one more wing that can shoot, play defense, and create off the bounce when necessary... and those guys aren't cheap. I don't think you can play Love and Thompson at the same time, and, ideally, you want LeBron at the 5 to match Draymond. Kyrie, when healthy, may be the only point guard on the planet with the skills to play Curry to a draw. Unfortunately, you can't count on him being healthy, but let's assume he is. That leaves JR, Shump and... Richard Jefferson (?) left to match up against Iguodala, Barnes and Klay. You know who would be surprisingly useful in this matchup, even though he's not near the player he was before? Joe Johnson.

All that being said, it's a moot point because even if the Cavs had the perfect lineup to match up with Golden State, they don't use it enough to be comfortable with it. The thing about the Warriors' lineup that kills other teams is not necessarily that its super small, it's that they use it enough to develop chemistry with it. The Cavs could throw 5 guys out there that, physically, match up with Golden State, but that lineup will likely be playing together for the first time. Throwing a first time lineup on the floor against the Golden State death machine is asking for bad results. That's why it's so important in the regular season for Blatt to get super creative with his lineups. If the team drops a few games because he's testing out lineups, so be it. They aren't getting home court anyway.

I would not play their small lineup with Lebron at 5. Love or TT at the 5 and both guys have Green trouble last year mainly due to bring forces on the glass. That allows you to play any combo of shumpert JR Delly or RJ at the 2 and 3. You have to be able to score against that lineup which we weren't able do last year and the Clips failed to do last year.

If healthy I think the teams other then the Cavs that will give GS trouble is the Bulls and SAS as they can throw a good offensive player who can score against Green and hard to find a p!place to hide Curry on defense. For this reason I agrre Joe Johnson would be interesting as the Cavs could then decide to keep Lebron at the 3 and just constantly go after Curry