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2016 Presidential Race AND POLL

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Who do you plan to vote for in November?

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 93 39.6%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 44 18.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 55 23.4%
  • I won't vote

    Votes: 43 18.3%

  • Total voters
    235
Totally disagree. The republican debates are actually debates against each other. This debate actually reminded me of a student body presidential race at a middle school with candidates all promising fiscal impossibilities.

Just because you don't agree with the politics doesn't mean that it serves any sort of different purpose than the Republican debates. These early primary debates are all jerkoff fests with all the random candidates trying to stand out in a crowded field.
 
Just because you don't agree with the politics doesn't mean that it serves any sort of different purpose than the Republican debates. These early primary debates are all jerkoff fests with all the random candidates trying to stand out in a crowded field.

The point is that the winnowing down is being done differently, which may matter when it comes to the general election.

In the GOP debates, the candidates were specifically directed by moderators to go after each other. CNN was even open about that being their strategy for the debate. But what that does is focus on each candidate's negatives, while generating soundbite criticisms from fellow Republicans on the eventual nominee.

The moderation of the Democratic field was much more oriented to just letting each candidate state their own views on various issues. That presents a more positive image of each candidates, and avoids creating soundbites of Democrats criticizing Democrats that could be used as fodder for the general election.

Tl;Dr: the Republicans are being winnowed down by who is the least unattractive. The Democrats are being winnowed down by who is the most attractive.

ETA: and I'm not complaining about the first GOP debate (though they were rough on the GOP candidates) because there's no point of comparison - FoxNews hasn't moderated a Democratic debate.

But I think there was a clear difference in approach between the two CNN debates.
 
I'm still lost.

If you didn't see Republicans being asked to take specific shots at other Republicans, then we were watching different debates.
Anderson Cooper did the same with the Democrats. They were just smart enough to not take the bait. ;)
 
Or she learned from Gore that you don't run away from a very successful Democratic president. Your bias is showing.

My bias?

Nate, again, I worked for Barack Obama, extensively. My family and his have ties, and my aunt is a personal friend to the President.

I have nothing against Obama as a person, and have no "bias."

Her strategy was talked about quite a bit last night in Democratic circles since no one knew how she would approach the question of a third term. She's fully embraced the idea, which in my opinion, demonstrates a lack of vision.
 
The point is that the winnowing down is being done differently, which may matter when it comes to the general election.

In the GOP debates, the candidates were specifically directed by moderators to go after each other. CNN was even open about that being their strategy for the debate. But what that does is focus on each candidate's negatives, while generating soundbite criticisms from fellow Republicans on the eventual nominee.

The moderation of the Democratic field was much more oriented to just letting each candidate state their own views on various issues. That presents a more positive image of each candidates, and avoids creating soundbites of Democrats criticizing Democrats that could be used as fodder for the general election.

Tl;Dr: the Republicans are being winnowed down by who is the least unattractive. The Democrats are being winnowed down by who is the most attractive.

ETA: and I'm not complaining about the first GOP debate (though they were rough on the GOP candidates) because there's no point of comparison - FoxNews hasn't moderated a Democratic debate.

But I think there was a clear difference in approach between the two CNN debates.
I believe you believe this. I also know you have a tendency to see only what you want to see.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton, is Bernie Sanders tough enough on guns?

COOPER: We're going to bring you all in on this. But, Senator Sanders, you have to give a response [to Clinton].

COOPER: Senator -- Governor Chafee, you have an F rating from the NRA, what do you think about what Senator Webb just said?

COOPER: Senator Sanders, what would you do differently [from Clinton].

BASH: Governor Chafee, you were the only Republican in the Senate to vote against the Iraq war. You say Secretary Clinton should be disqualified from the presidency because she voted in favor of using force in Iraq. She has since said that her vote was a mistake. Why isn't that good enough?

BASH: Secretary Clinton, he's questioning your judgment.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton voted to authorize military force in Iraq, supported more troops in Afghanistan. As Secretary of State, she wanted to arm Syrian rebels and push for the bombing of Libya. Is she too quick to use military force?​

Your assessment does not survive even three minutes of research. This is not even the first half of the debate. I got tired of copying and pasting.
 
I believe you believe this. I also know you have a tendency to see only what you want to see.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton, is Bernie Sanders tough enough on guns?

COOPER: We're going to bring you all in on this. But, Senator Sanders, you have to give a response [to Clinton].

COOPER: Senator -- Governor Chafee, you have an F rating from the NRA, what do you think about what Senator Webb just said?

COOPER: Senator Sanders, what would you do differently [from Clinton].

BASH: Governor Chafee, you were the only Republican in the Senate to vote against the Iraq war. You say Secretary Clinton should be disqualified from the presidency because she voted in favor of using force in Iraq. She has since said that her vote was a mistake. Why isn't that good enough?

BASH: Secretary Clinton, he's questioning your judgment.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton voted to authorize military force in Iraq, supported more troops in Afghanistan. As Secretary of State, she wanted to arm Syrian rebels and push for the bombing of Libya. Is she too quick to use military force?​

Your assessment does not survive even three minutes of research. This is not even the first half of the debate. I got tired of copying and pasting.

I didn't say that no such questions were asked. They were, at least at the beginning. I said that it was much more in the GOP debate.
 
My bias?

Nate, again, I worked for Barack Obama, extensively. My family and his have ties, and my aunt is a personal friend to the President.

I have nothing against Obama as a person, and have no "bias."

Her strategy was talked about quite a bit last night in Democratic circles since no one knew how she would approach the question of a third term. She's fully embraced the idea, which in my opinion, demonstrates a lack of vision.
Yes, your bias against Clinton. Which is real and obvious. Do you deny disliking her?

You said embracing Obama's presidency is unimaginative and shows she will say anything to be president. That is ridiculous. Gore's running away from Clinton's successful presidency is commonly thought of as a huge mistake. Clinton understands that and doesn't want to make the same mistake. How is that unimaginative and how does that show she will say anything to be president?
 
Totally disagree. The republican debates are actually debates against each other. This debate actually reminded me of a student body presidential race at a middle school with candidates all promising fiscal impossibilities.

No.

That's not a "debate."

I used to debate competitively, and yelling back and forth and not actually presenting facts as premises to your arguments is not any form of "policy debate."

We don't have debates in this country.
 
I didn't say that no such questions were asked. They were, at least at the beginning. I said that it was much more in the GOP debate.
You said - "Tl;Dr: the Republicans are being winnowed down by who is the least unattractive. The Democrats are being winnowed down by who is the most attractive."

This is a delusion. There's nothing to support this claim.
 
The point is that the winnowing down is being done differently, which may matter when it comes to the general election.

In the GOP debates, the candidates were specifically directed by moderators to go after each other. CNN was even open about that being their strategy for the debate. But what that does is focus on each candidate's negatives, while generating soundbite criticisms from fellow Republicans on the eventual nominee.

The moderation of the Democratic field was much more oriented to just letting each candidate state their own views on various issues. That presents a more positive image of each candidates, and avoids creating soundbites of Democrats criticizing Democrats that could be used as fodder for the general election.

Tl;Dr: the Republicans are being winnowed down by who is the least unattractive. The Democrats are being winnowed down by who is the most attractive.

ETA: and I'm not complaining about the first GOP debate (though they were rough on the GOP candidates) because there's no point of comparison - FoxNews hasn't moderated a Democratic debate.

But I think there was a clear difference in approach between the two CNN debates.

I haven't watched any of the debates so I can't speak to any narratives being driven by the media, other than when you admit that even Fox was stoking the GOP infighting flames then it's clear that that's what drives anyone to tune into the Republican version of these sideshows.

My only point is that early debates, both Republican and Democrat, are completely meaningless.
 
Totally disagree. The republican debates are actually debates against each other. This debate actually reminded me of a student body presidential race at a middle school with candidates all promising fiscal impossibilities.

The Republican debating was literally just he said she said you're ugly you're a jerk everyone hates politics kill immigrants and everyone in the middle east.

Edit, gouri beat me to it. But that's not a debate. And also like gouri said, neither was the DNC "debate".
 
Yes, your bias against Clinton. Which is real and obvious. Do you deny disliking her?

I thought you meant against Obama.

And yes, you're right, I do dislike Clinton but not out of prejudice. I dislike her because I know how the Clinton's operate. I didn't dislike her in 2007, but by 2009, yes, I grew disdain for her having dealt with her people and her campaign.

She really is the Machiavellian politician of this era; and not only in the sense that she will do or say whatever it takes to get elected - but that she doesn't seem to care one way or the other.

Her positions are absurd, her politics are dirty in the worst way, and she has almost zero chance of rallying the population behind her which is precisely what will be necessary to get any of the changes any of the candidates are talking about.

YYou said embracing Obama's presidency is unimaginative and shows she will say anything to be president. That is ridiculous.

It's not remotely ridiculous. Why not actually understand what is being said instead of knee-jerkingly casting aspersions? I'm not the first poster to ask you to not do that.

But to answer your point, some of the very first questions posed to her were essentially along the same narrative. Anderson even asked her if she would "say anything to get elected" and you've actually said that my also questioning her on this is "ridiculous." C'mon.

Clinton is spring-boarding on the Obama Administration's success with the LGBT community when it is advantageous. She doesn't take positions unless they are politically expedient. She wants to argue against the War on Drugs when expedient but pull the "leave it to the States" argument when it isn't.

While she is beloved by the African-American community, she worked behind the scenes to challenge African-American votes during the 2008 primaries and to play racial politics against Barack Obama.

Her support for banking reform is a half-hearted joke, or didn't you notice? Who is she trying to fool?

She is a corporatist, DLC, New Democrat, centrist. To stand on that stage and call herself a liberal progressive is a complete lie, and contradicts statements she's made within the last several weeks.

Her campaign is claiming she is to the left of Obama.

Fucking stop.

Gore's running away from Clinton's successful presidency is commonly thought of as a huge mistake.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Gore polled better than Clinton in early polls. You had polls showing that 74% of Americans, on average in early polling (Pew 1999), were simply "tired of the scandals of the Clinton Administration," and this included 64% of Democrats.

George W. Bush was a formidable candidate, and Gore decided to bet on himself. His bet seemingly paid off considering he won the popular vote and almost assuredly would have won Florida in a free and fair recount.

Now if you want to argue that he would have done much better had he run on a Clinton third term, well, that's largely fantasy. It might be true, but, it's impossible to know or predict with any degree of certainty.

However, if your argument is that Gore should not have asked Clinton not to campaign for him; well, you'll get no argument from me there, that was very likely a mistake. But that's a completely different question than running on your own platform. Clinton is running on Obama's platform, which is appalling considering their stated policy differences.

To get back to this election cycle, Obama is very popular among Democrats and is well liked by people in general. He would likely beat everyone from either party heads up in an election.

Clinton embracing Obama's platform and "going further" is a joke because anyone who actually knows Clinton's historical positions knows she doesn't really agree with Obama on most things.

Clinton understands that and doesn't want to make the same mistake. How is that unimaginative and how does that show she will say anything to be president?

Because you've contorted the argument into this framework about Gore which makes little sense. That isn't the dynamic at play here.

Clinton didn't agree with Obama while serving within the Administration. Not on a number of issues within and without her direct oversight. These two people do not share the same ideological positions or operate in the same ideological framework on a host of issues.

Instead of running on her traditional platform, the one she held in 2007, she is simply hoping to go through the motions five more times until the general.

She is essentially pulling a Mayweather to win the Presidency.
 
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My only point is that early debates, both Republican and Democrat, are completely meaningless.

These debates help determine who wins the early primary states. They are very important.
 
The Republican debating was literally just he said she said you're ugly you're a jerk everyone hates politics kill immigrants and everyone in the middle east.

Edit, gouri beat me to it. But that's not a debate. And also like gouri said, neither was the DNC "debate".

Exactly.
 

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