2017 Draft Prospects Thread

[Soda]

ton of good stuff in here
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/02/27/nfl-draft-mike-mayock-combine-top-prospects-peter-king

Read that and saw the suggestion to trade #12 AND #65.

 

[sportscoach]

Read that and saw the suggestion to trade #12 AND #65.

I agree to be sincere, but it also depends on who we have targeted as well.

 

[AZ_]

Doesn't really matter who they have "targeted."

12 and 65 for Garrappolo is an absurd overpay.

 

[sportscoach]

Doesn't really matter who they have "targeted."

12 and 65 for Garrappolo is an absurd overpay.

I agree with that one as well, I am not afraid to move up and down in the draft, but I am not using a first round pick on Grappolo

 

[Soda]

I agree with that one as well, I am not afraid to move up and down in the draft, but I am not using a first round pick on Grappolo

Well, Peter King's article suggests the Browns use 12 & 65 to acquire Garappolo.

 

[sportscoach]

Well, Peter King's article suggests the Browns use 12 & 65 to acquire Garappolo.

I figured that out after I said that, I was too lazy to read it all! lol

 

[Randolphkeys]

Read that and saw the suggestion to trade #12 AND #65.

It's a little disingenuous to just put the estimated sticker price in a post without the article itself. The price of a 12 and a 65 comes out of thin air and has a shock value, but the logic of using draft assets to secure the most important position on the field is worth the read:

Browns Are on the Clock, in More Ways Than One

Photo: Nick Cammett/Diamond Images/Getty Images
Finding a long-term answer at quarterback continues to be a priority for the Browns and coach Hue Jackson.
Cleveland has such an embarrassment of riches in the draft that soon they’re going to run out of reasons why they can’t win. Last year the Browns had 14 overall picks, the most they’ve had in a season since they had 15 in 1979. [Ozzie Newsome had just finished his rookie year at the time of that draft.] This year Cleveland enters the draft season with eight picks in the top 150 … two more than any other team in the NFL in the top 150.
The picks: 1, 12, 33, 52, 65, 108, 142, 145.

In a way it’s almost cruel that such a crop of picks falls in an overall mediocre year for the quarterback position. If the Browns don’t trade for a promising quarterback like Jimmy Garoppolo, or try to steal a franchised quarterback like Kirk Cousins (well, he’s likely to be franchised by Washington) in free agency, then they’ll be in a tough spot in this draft. There’s no logical quarterback to take first overall if going by grades; surely Myles Garrett or Jonathan Allen, likely the top two defensive players on the board, will have grades superior to any quarterback in the draft. But with all the teams high in the draft that will need a quarterback (San Francisco at 2, Chicago at 3 and possibly the Jets at 6 and Bills at 10), the Browns may be in a very tough spot. They may have to over-draft the quarterback they love (if there is one) or risk losing him before they can pick again at 12. Or they may have to trade a significant amount of draft capital to pair with the 12th pick to move up.

I feel for Browns coach Hue Jackson and GM Sashi Brown. Despite letting go three quality offensive players in Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz and Taylor Gabriel, they’ve done a lot of right things in the past year. But the crying need for a quarterback in a year where there’s no sure thing will test every brain in the Cleveland organization, including top scout Andrew Berry and strategist Paul DePodesta. What’s the right thing to do when there’s no obvious right thing to do? For a team that’s 4-33 since Thanksgiving 2014, it’s another crucial—and likely tortured—decision to have to make.

What would I do? Though I continue to think the Patriots won’t trade Garoppolo, I’d offer the Patriots the 12th and 65th picks for him. (This is only if the Browns really like Garoppolo, which I hear they do.) No other team in the league will offer such a lucrative package, and even if Bill Belichick doesn’t want to trade him, it’s likely he’d be tempted by that deal.

I know that so many Browns fans are anti-Garoppolo because of his limited sample size, and I understand that, and I get that the 12th and 65th picks in a very good draft should be Day 1 contributors. But there’s also the matter here of hoarding draft picks, and becoming slaves to them. Cleveland fans have gotten used to the draft being their Super Bowl. It’s time to sacrifice something significant to get a quarterback. If there’s a QB you love available in April, no package is too rich to get him.

It may come down to this: Do you have more faith in Garoppolo or in one of the rookies to be the best option for the future of the Browns? If you believe one of the kids in the draft is, then you shouldn’t feel bad about the Browns picking him first overall. The quarterback workouts are Saturday on NFL Network. (This week is Plug Central for NFL Network.) Lovers of the Browns should eat up the workouts.

 

[sportscoach]

It's a little disingenuous to just put the estimated sticker price in a post without the article itself. The price of a 12 and a 65 comes out of thin air and has a shock value, but the logic of using draft assets to secure the most important position on the field is worth the read:

Browns Are on the Clock, in More Ways Than One

Photo: Nick Cammett/Diamond Images/Getty Images
Finding a long-term answer at quarterback continues to be a priority for the Browns and coach Hue Jackson.
Cleveland has such an embarrassment of riches in the draft that soon they’re going to run out of reasons why they can’t win. Last year the Browns had 14 overall picks, the most they’ve had in a season since they had 15 in 1979. [Ozzie Newsome had just finished his rookie year at the time of that draft.] This year Cleveland enters the draft season with eight picks in the top 150 … two more than any other team in the NFL in the top 150.
The picks: 1, 12, 33, 52, 65, 108, 142, 145.

In a way it’s almost cruel that such a crop of picks falls in an overall mediocre year for the quarterback position. If the Browns don’t trade for a promising quarterback like Jimmy Garoppolo, or try to steal a franchised quarterback like Kirk Cousins (well, he’s likely to be franchised by Washington) in free agency, then they’ll be in a tough spot in this draft. There’s no logical quarterback to take first overall if going by grades; surely Myles Garrett or Jonathan Allen, likely the top two defensive players on the board, will have grades superior to any quarterback in the draft. But with all the teams high in the draft that will need a quarterback (San Francisco at 2, Chicago at 3 and possibly the Jets at 6 and Bills at 10), the Browns may be in a very tough spot. They may have to over-draft the quarterback they love (if there is one) or risk losing him before they can pick again at 12. Or they may have to trade a significant amount of draft capital to pair with the 12th pick to move up.

I feel for Browns coach Hue Jackson and GM Sashi Brown. Despite letting go three quality offensive players in Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz and Taylor Gabriel, they’ve done a lot of right things in the past year. But the crying need for a quarterback in a year where there’s no sure thing will test every brain in the Cleveland organization, including top scout Andrew Berry and strategist Paul DePodesta. What’s the right thing to do when there’s no obvious right thing to do? For a team that’s 4-33 since Thanksgiving 2014, it’s another crucial—and likely tortured—decision to have to make.

What would I do? Though I continue to think the Patriots won’t trade Garoppolo, I’d offer the Patriots the 12th and 65th picks for him. (This is only if the Browns really like Garoppolo, which I hear they do.) No other team in the league will offer such a lucrative package, and even if Bill Belichick doesn’t want to trade him, it’s likely he’d be tempted by that deal.

I know that so many Browns fans are anti-Garoppolo because of his limited sample size, and I understand that, and I get that the 12th and 65th picks in a very good draft should be Day 1 contributors. But there’s also the matter here of hoarding draft picks, and becoming slaves to them. Cleveland fans have gotten used to the draft being their Super Bowl. It’s time to sacrifice something significant to get a quarterback. If there’s a QB you love available in April, no package is too rich to get him.

It may come down to this: Do you have more faith in Garoppolo or in one of the rookies to be the best option for the future of the Browns? If you believe one of the kids in the draft is, then you shouldn’t feel bad about the Browns picking him first overall. The quarterback workouts are Saturday on NFL Network. (This week is Plug Central for NFL Network.) Lovers of the Browns should eat up the workouts.

I would reply to that, with the fact we have so many holes on the defense and on the team while the 2018 draft should be strong in QBs, I think over paying for Grappolo is a bad idea. I am not anti-grappolo and I dont think most people on this board are against getting him. We are against the notion of trading a first round pick for him. Majority of us feel he is not worth a first round and do not wish to see one of our first round picks traded for him. With us being very thin/not very good on the defensive side of the ball and almost every single analyst saying it is very deep draft on that side of the ball, we need to address these issues via the draft and allow who we have in camp/acquire a Tyrod Taylor like guy in free agency to play for us in 2017, while drafting a project QB this season/spending our 1st round next season on our future QB.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I would reply to that, with the fact we have so many holes on the defense and on the team while the 2018 draft should be strong in QBs, I think over paying for Grappolo is a bad idea. I am not anti-grappolo and I dont think most people on this board are against getting him. We are against the notion of trading a first round pick for him. Majority of us feel he is not worth a first round and do not wish to see one of our first round picks traded for him. With us being very thin/not very good on the defensive side of the ball and almost every single analyst saying it is very deep draft on that side of the ball, we need to address these issues via the draft and allow who we have in camp/acquire a Tyrod Taylor like guy in free agency to play for us in 2017, while drafting a project QB this season/spending our 1st round next season on our future QB.

I think Browns fans tend to have a fine wine palate when it comes to players, but don't like fine wine prices and haven't noticed they are surrounded by 30 packs of Keystone Light.

I think Tyrod never becomes a free agent and renegotiates with Buffalo, Cousins stays in Washington, Romo lands in Denver, AJ McCarron gets traded for the price Browns fans wish Garoppolo was worth, and Garoppolo ends up traded for around the price tag we keep hearing rumored. I recently read elsewhere one of SF or Chicago putting together an offer of a 2nd rounder with a third this year, conditional pick next year. Browns have the resources to up the offer while still drafting well. They have 11 flipping picks, 8 in the top 150. Holes in the rotation will get filled with or without a trade for a QB.

One thing is for sure, the quarterback play from the Browns was so inconsistent last year, I had trouble really gauging the rest of the offense. I could tell the center consistently sucked because pressure came straight into the QBs face, and then Kessler would rush a pass or RG3 and McCown would run around and miss the passing window. Can't watch that again.

 

[sportscoach]

I think Browns fans tend to have a fine wine palate when it comes to players, but don't like fine wine prices and haven't noticed they are surrounded by 30 packs of Keystone Light.

I think Tyrod never becomes a free agent and renegotiates with Buffalo, Cousins stays in Washington, Romo lands in Denver, AJ McCarron gets traded for the price Browns fans wish Garoppolo was worth, and Garoppolo ends up traded for around the price tag we keep hearing rumored. I recently read elsewhere one of SF or Chicago putting together an offer of a 2nd rounder with a third this year, conditional pick next year. Browns have the resources to up the offer while still drafting well. They have 11 flipping picks, 8 in the top 150. Holes in the rotation will get filled with or without a trade for a QB.

One thing is for sure, the quarterback play from the Browns was so inconsistent last year, I had trouble really gauging the rest of the offense. I could tell the center consistently sucked because pressure came straight into the QBs face, and then Kessler would rush a pass or RG3 and McCown would run around and miss the passing window. Can't watch that again.

Hence why I am more worried about getting my OLine looking a lot better and stronger. I am actually thinking we would trade for McCarron before we would trade for Grappolo anyways since Jackson knows exactly what they would get out of him, but most people on the board semi-ignored my comments at first about McCarron so who knows. I am willing to go a second round pick, 33, for Grappolo, but nothing else added to it. I don't think we need to go any higher than that. I also have more of a late first round grade on the QBs in this draft as well, so its about the right spot for us to get a QB either way in this draft. I cannot merit going any higher than that for a guy who still hasn't proven anything with only one year of control left on his contract. If he still had a couple seasons left, I could maybe merit going higher than that, but I cannot. McCarron to me at the end of the day, should be cheaper and knows the offense we have in Cleveland very well for the most part. That is the way I would personal go.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I just don't see a total rebuild of the offensive line as a necessity, mentioned it several times. The team needs a center and the guard play has been strong when healthy.

Look over at the Patriots, they invested a 3rd round pick in Joe Thuney, who was just below league average and still learning next to a great LT in Solder. Their center is Shaq Mason, a second year player drafted at the end of the fourth round in 2015. Their other guard of the future is Tre Jackson, drafted in the 4th round but got hurt. Undrafted veteran David Andrews played very well in his place. Their line overall was much improved from 2015/2016 season, just with two or three picks in the 70-120 overall range.

If the Browns draft a center with one of those 3rd or 4th rounders make a move in free agency for a veteran center for competition, and finally create some competition for Right Tackle with Erving and Shon Coleman, that is looking like a top ten line if they stay healthy. Go ahead and spend one or two top 150 picks on the O-Line, but no need to go full Ray Farmer and pretend other position needs don't exist.

As for Garoppolo being worth no more than a second rounder, Patriots don't let you finish the sentence before they hang up the phone. That was yet another article that says the Browns interest is real from Peter King, and he's legit.

 

[sportscoach]

I just don't see a total rebuild of the offensive line as a necessity, mentioned it several times. The team needs a center and the guard play has been strong when healthy.

Look over at the Patriots, they invested a 3rd round pick in Joe Thuney, who was just below league average and still learning next to a great LT in Solder. Their center is Shaq Mason, a second year player drafted at the end of the fourth round in 2015. Their other guard of the future is True Jackson, drafted in the 4th round but got hurt. Undrafted veteran David Andrews played very well in his place. Their line overall was much improved from 2015/2016 season, just with two or three picks in the 70-120 overall range.

If the Browns draft a center with one of those 3rd or 4th rounders make a move in free agency for a veteran center for competition, and finally create some competition for Right Tackle with Erving and Shon Coleman, that is looking like a top ten line if they stay healthy. Go ahead and spend one or two top 150 picks on the O-Line, but no need to go full Ray Farmer and pretend other position needs don't exist.

As for Garoppolo being worth no more than a second rounder, Patriots don't let you finish the sentence before they hang up the phone. That was yet another article that says the Browns interest is real from Peter King, and he's legit.

I am not saying a total make over to the OLine, i just think we need to sign a very good OLine guy like Zeitler, and then draft a C/G like a Pocic/someone who can play C, while maybe bringing in another young guy in free agency. You have to remember I am not saying scrap the OLine, I am saying let's upgrade it with the best Free agent available we can get and then on day 2, lets get another solid OLine to play C/RT in the draft. I know OLine can come in any round really, but this draft class is not very deep so it will be between round 2-4 that we get another OLine guy in my opinion and not worry about one after that unless one with at ton of talent ends up falling.

If they wanna hang up the phone on a second round offer, then I could care less about getting Grappolo then. I cannot chance us doing what is happening with Cousins on a guy who would only have really a couple games of experience underneath his belt. If he doesn't want to sign an extension/we have to franchise tag him, it would be bad in the long run for us I believe. So lets be like that is our final offer and if they don't take it then so be it. I wanted to trade a second round pick for Cousins, but instead we drafted Manziel. I will take my chances with who we have/Getting McCarron for cheaper than Grappolo if worse comes to worse.

 

[Soda]

It's a little disingenuous to just put the estimated sticker price in a post without the article itself. The price of a 12 and a 65 comes out of thin air and has a shock value, but the logic of using draft assets to secure the most important position on the field is worth the read:

I don't think it's disingenuous at all.. King doesn't even suggest feeling the market, he suggests the team blowing their load out of the gate. From how the Browns value picks, those two (12 & 65) equate to somewhere in between #2 and #3 overall (https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/). If he's THAT good, you & King should just suggest giving up the first overall pick and be done with it. Both offers, to me, are insane proposals. I don't buy the "you're rich, just overspend" logic and I don't buy the "you're so bad that you have to overpay"... If this is the case, I'll find my QB where my assets hold the same value as any other team's; the draft. If the QB isn't there, he isn't there. Not going to be hell-bent enough to overspend to that degree because I feel pressured to answer the QB question right now.

 

[Soda]

Moving on.. Some Pro-Day dates:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...rospects?campaign=tw-nf-sf59047813-sf59047813

March 7
» Georgia State: 9 a.m.
» Purdue: TBA

March 8
» Alabama: Noon
» Central Oklahoma: 2:30 p.m.
» Colorado: 2 p.m.
» Kentucky: TBA
» Marshall: TBA
» Oklahoma: 8:30 a.m.
» Southern Nazarene: 2:30 p.m.
» Temple: 10 a.m.

March 9
» Delaware: 9 a.m.
» Delaware State: 2 p.m.
» Idaho: 8 a.m.
» Jacksonville State: 2:30 p.m.
» New Mexico: Noon
» Oklahoma State: 9 a.m.
» Penn: 10 a.m.
» Samford: 8:30 a.m.
» Texas-El Paso: 8 a.m.
» Wyoming: 10 a.m.

March 10
» Army: 3 p.m.
» Auburn: TBA
» New Mexico State: 10 a.m.
» Northern Illinois: 10 a.m.
» Southeastern Oklahoma State: 10 a.m.
» Tulsa: 9:30 a.m.
» Tuskegee: 2 p.m.

March 11
» Washington: 10 a.m.

March 13
» Brown: 2:30 p.m.
» Furman: 2 p.m.
» Kansas: 10 a.m.
» Laval (Quebec): 10 a.m.
» Minnesota: 9 a.m.
» North Alabama: 10 a.m.
» Tennessee Tech: 10 a.m.
» Wake Forest: 9 a.m.

March 14
» Boston College: 12:30 p.m.
» Kansas State: Noon
» Liberty: 2 p.m.
» Nebraska: 10:30 a.m.
» Newberry: 1 p.m.
» Northwestern: 8 a.m.
» West Georgia: 10 a.m.
» Youngstown State: 9 a.m.

March 15
» Arkansas: 10 a.m.
» Arkansas-Pine Bluff: 2:30 p.m.
» Buffalo: 8 a.m.
» Georgia: 9 a.m.
» James Madison: 4 p.m.
» Mercer: 2 p.m.
» North Carolina-Charlotte: 8 a.m.
» Sacramento State: 8:30 a.m.
» Virginia Tech: 9 a.m.
» Wisconsin: 9 a.m.

March 16
» Arizona State: 9:30 a.m.
» Clemson: TBA
» Oregon: 11:15 a.m.
» Penn State: 10 a.m.
» Pittsburgh State: 10 a.m.
» Vanderbilt: 10:30 a.m.
» Virginia: 7:45 a.m.
» William & Mary: 4 p.m.

March 17
» Arkansas State: 8 a.m.
» Georgia Tech: 8:30 a.m.
» Kennesaw State: 1 p.m.
» Old Dominion: 9 a.m.
» Oregon State: 9:30 a.m.
» Tennessee State: 9 a.m.

March 20
» Azusa Pacific: 1 p.m.
» Bowling Green: Noon
» North Carolina Central: 1 p.m.
» North Carolina State: 8 a.m.
» Syracuse: Noon
» Toledo: 8 a.m. (I'm interested in Kareem Hunt's numbers)

March 21
» Grambling State: 9 a.m.
» Louisiana-Monroe: 8 a.m.
» North Carolina: 9 a.m.
» North Carolina A&T: 2 p.m.
» UCLA: 10 a.m.

March 22
» Central Florida: 1 p.m.
» Cincinnati: 8:30 a.m.
» Connecticut: 8 a.m.
» Duke: 1 p.m.
» Fresno State: 11:30 a.m.
» Massachusetts: 11 a.m.
» Michigan State: 9 a.m.
» Mississippi State: 8:30 a.m.
» Missouri State: 9 a.m.
» Pittsburgh: 10 a.m.
» USC: 9 a.m.
» Weber State: 2:30 p.m.

March 23
» Bethune Cookman: 10 a.m.
» East Carolina: TBA
» Eastern Michigan: 10 a.m.
» Eastern Washington: 9 a.m.
» Florida Tech: 9 a.m.
» Jackson State: 10 a.m.
» Missouri: 9:30 a.m.
» Notre Dame: 11 a.m.
» Ohio State: 11 a.m.
» San Diego State: 10:15 a.m.
» Slippery Rock: 8:30 a.m.
» Stanford: TBA
» Utah: 8 a.m.

March 24
» Akron: 8 a.m.
» Arizona: 10:30 a.m.
» BYU: 8:30 a.m.
» California: TBA
» Michigan: 9 a.m.
» Missouri Western: 10 a.m.
» Utah State: 8 a.m.

March 27
» Appalachian State: 9 a.m.
» Cal Poly: 8:30 a.m.
» Houston: 2 p.m.
» Monmouth: 10 a.m.
» Villanova: 9 a.m.

March 28
» Florida: 9 a.m.
» Florida State: 8:30 a.m.
» Iowa State: 12:30 p.m.
» Miami (Ohio): 8 a.m.
» Stoney Brook: 8:30 a.m.
» Texas: 8:15 a.m.
» Texas State: 3 p.m.

March 29
» Florida International: 2:15 p.m.
» Fordham: 9 a.m.
» Illinois State: 11 a.m.
» Miami (Fla.): 8 a.m.
» North Dakota State: 3 p.m.
» Ohio: 1:30 p.m.
» SMU: 8 a.m.
» South Dakota: 7 a.m.
» South Dakota State: 9 a.m.
» Southern Utah: 10 a.m.
» Stephen F. Austin: 3 p.m.
» Texas A&M: TBA

March 30
» Ball State: 11:30 a.m.
» Boise State: 10:30 a.m.
» Chattanooga: 10 a.m.
» Louisville: 2:30 p.m.
» North Texas: 2 p.m.
» Yale: 10 a.m.

March 31
» Indiana: TBA
» Jacksonville: 10 a.m.
» West Virginia: 8:30 a.m.
» Western Kentucky: 8:30 a.m.

April 3
» Mississippi: Noon

April 4
» South Alabama: 9 a.m.
» Southern Mississippi: 2 p.m.

April 5
» Gardner-Webb: 9 a.m.
» LSU: TBA

April 6
» Louisiana-Lafayette: 2 p.m.

April 7
» Portland State: Noon

 

[Randolphkeys]

I don't think it's disingenuous at all.. King doesn't even suggest feeling the market, he suggests the team blowing their load out of the gate. From how the Browns value picks, those two (12 & 65) equate to somewhere in between #2 and #3 overall (https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/). If he's THAT good, you & King should just suggest giving up the first overall pick and be done with it. Both offers, to me, are insane proposals. I don't buy the "you're rich, just overspend" logic and I don't buy the "you're so bad that you have to overpay"... If this is the case, I'll find my QB where my assets hold the same value as any other team's; the draft. If the QB isn't there, he isn't there. Not going to be hell-bent enough to overspend to that degree because I feel pressured to answer the QB question right now.

Problem #1 with that article was formatting. You had to scroll down 3,000+ words about Maycock and his opinions on other prospects before seeing the section about the Browns, and I doubt many people bothered.

You're welcome.