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2023-24 Season | Game #2 | Thunder @ Cavs | Oct. 27, 2023

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Wham with the Right Hand

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The Cavs play their first home game against the Oklahoma City Thunder, who also opened their season with a road win by a 124-104 score against the Bulls. Their entire starting lineup was between +8 and +19. To no one’s surprise Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) led the way with 31 points, 10 assists, and 5 rebounds.

You can’t glean much from one game so I pulled together some information on the Thunder from a few season previews.

From NBA.com:

The Oklahoma City Thunder took another step in their rebuild last season. They finished with a record of 40-42, only one game short of a postseason berth…With Shai Gilgeous-Alexander on the cusp of superstardom, several of the young Thunder prospects made strides including Lu Dort, Josh Giddey, Isaiah Joe and Jalen Williams. This was all done without the help of 2022 No. 2 overall pick Chet Holmgren, who missed last season due to a foot injury.

Holmgren appears to be full-go for camp after a stellar showing over the summer. After a relatively quiet offseason, Oklahoma City could be poised to become the surprise team of the Western Conference for 2023-24.

From si.com:

Oklahoma City just finished 40-42 in the Western Conference despite their best player, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, missing 14 games. In addition, Kenrich Williams and Aleksej Pokusevski — key rotation players — played in just 87 games combined.

By any measure, the Thunder were certainly operating with way less than a full deck…And they still managed to win 40 games.

Also, Oklahoma City probably won’t be rolling out dodgy, undersized centers in their starting lineups anymore. Now, they are armed with a healthy Chet Holmgren, a true seven-footer who has the skills to raise the floor and ceiling on both offense and defense. And Jaylin Williams, the backup center, has some two-way juice to his game, too. He showed that last year after leading the league in charges drawn and shooting above 40 percent from 3-point territory.

Gilgeous-Alexander, who just turned 25, is fresh off of earning a selection to First-Team All-NBA after averaging over 30 points per game on 62.6% true-shooting, and is the driving force behind this team.

Both Giddey and Jalen Williams were the clear “2A” and “2B” for the Thunder down the stretch. While both players got off to a slow start last season, they started to find their grooves as the season progressed — especially Williams. As Giddey continues to refine his shot and grow into his own as a scorer and playmaker, and Williams continues to transition his well-rounded game to the NBA, Oklahoma City is only going to get better.

Big picture, all of Gilgeous-Alexander, Giddey, Holmgren and Jalen Williams are just pieces of a larger puzzle. On their own, those four players represent a corp that any rebuilding NBA team would be happy to have.

From spin.ph:

Oklahoma City should be among the highest-scoring and most exciting teams in the league.

Oklahoma City also will have Chet Holmgren, the No. 2 pick in the 2022 draft who missed last season with a foot injury. In his first two preseason games, the 7-foot-1 forward/center averaged 18.5 points in 18.8 minutes of action. He has been matchup nightmare on offense who fills a key void by adding an elite rim protector on defense.

Josh Giddey was named to the All-Rookie second team two years ago, then averaged 16.6 points, 7.9 rebounds and 6.2 assists per game last season for the Thunder….

Jalen Williams, a 6-foot-6 guard/forward averaged 14.1 points and 4.5 rebounds last season. He was runner-up for Rookie of the Year and was on the All-Rookie first-team…

Lu Dort, known as one of the league’s top perimeter defenders, averaged 13.7 points for the Thunder last season…

The Thunder bench is stacked with young players who have gained experience during the rebuild the past few years.

Departures: None.
Additions: Holmgren, G Vasilije Micic, F Davis Bertans.

Player to watch: Holmgren. He added more than 10 pounds of muscle while recovering from his injury and has been playing fearlessly in the preseason. He should be a top contender for the rookie of the year award.

From VSin,com:

There is no hotter commodity this offseason in the NBA than the Oklahoma City Thunder, and for good reason…First and foremost, the Thunder have the key piece in a burgeoning superstar that is Gilgeous-Alexander. He ranked in the 93rd percentile at his position in points per 100 shot attempts (125.9), the 93rd percentile in offensive efficiency differential (+6.8) and finished fourth in scoring (31.4 points per game).

For a team to contend it needs a ball-dominant star who can score at every level, and Gilgeous-Alexander can do that. He even showed an improved stepback 3-point jumper in the FIBA World Cup, which would be an incredible addition to his offensive arsenal, as he shot just 35.8% from deep last season and only took 10% of his attempts from that area of the floor.

Josh Giddey is a brilliant offensive player who averaged 16.6 points, 7.9 rebounds and 6.2 assists in his sophomore season. His efficiency from deep can improve - he shot 32.5% on 3.1 attempts - but he’s a great facilitator who can run the offense at an effective level.

Luguentz Dort is an extremely talented defender who can take on the best perimeter scorer on any team in the league, including the likes of Luka Doncic. He is not an insanely efficient shooter, but he shot 39.8% from the corners last season, so teams must account for him as a spot-up shooter.

Jalen Williams emerged as an incredible talent last season as well and pushed Paolo Banchero for Rookie of the Year. He averaged 14.1 points, 4.5 rebounds and 3.3 assists on 52.1% shooting from the floor. Williams also proved to be an effective offensive rebounder who grabbed 3.6% of his teammates’ missed shots last season.

There is no denying this roster is laden with talent, and the returns for bettors have been tremendous. So, it is no surprise that this team is favored to make the postseason and has a win total on par with a team like Sacramento that won the third seed in the Western Conference last season.

However, it’s not a perfect team, and there are some issues the Thunder must figure out if they are to meet the expectations thrust upon them this season.

Oklahoma City struggled to find scoring options outside of Gilgeous-Alexander last season…When he left the floor, Oklahoma City went from 117.6 points per 100 possessions to 110.8 and their net rating suffered by 4.2 points per 100 possessions in those minutes.

This team does have concerns on defense as well.

Dort might be an elite on-ball defender, but the team’s defensive rating suffered with Gilgeous-Alexander and Giddey on the floor. Giddey in particular - due to his lack of quick-twitch speed and athleticism - was constantly taken advantage of by quicker perimeter players…they allowed the 10th-highest frequency of wide-open 3-point attempts.

Chet Holmgren’s presence should help ease some of the defensive concerns, especially regarding rim protection. Holmgren averaged 3.5 blocks in Summer League play…Oklahoma City desperately needed a center last season, and Holmgren fills a massive need.

Despite the defensive concerns, this team will be extremely productive this season.

John Hollinger:

As I mentioned last week, Oklahoma City has some strong arguments for why it might make a charge up the standings: The Thunder were a decent team last season, they are extremely young and thus likely to benefit from improvement up and down the roster, and they add Chet Holmgren to a roster that was effectively centerless in 2022-23.

That said, I remain somewhat skeptical of the Thunder’s immediate upside (as opposed to their longer-term upside, which remains immense)…

Last season’s Thunder also had a jaw-dropping turnover differential of plus-3.8 per game, a testament both to the skill of Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in creating paint shots without miscues and to a scrambling, undersized defense that pestered opponents into myriad mistakes. Holmgren will add his own impact defensively with elite rim protection that was, um, not really a thing in Oklahoma City last year, but the coverages with him are going to look a lot different than Mark Daigneault’s funhouse-mirror schemes of a year ago…

My comments:

1. The Thunder have a ton of young talent and it will be really interesting to see SGA, Chet Holmgren, and Giddey on the floor together. The big hole at center is gone.

2. Defense is the question. The Thunder could be involved in a lot of high scoring games this year. But adding last year’s #1 overall pick plus the internal improvement of young players like Giddey and Jalen Williams makes me think they will win more than 40 games this year, maybe a lot more. However, they allowed the 10th most wide open 3's last year so if that carries over the Cavs could be getting a lot of open looks tonight. This game could be a shootout, especially if Jarrett Allen can't go.

3. No word yet on Jarrett Allen's availability.

4. Key matchup: SGA against Okoro and LeVert. Against Brooklyn these two held Cam Thomas to three points in the 4th quarter after he scored 33 in the first three.

5. Last year the Cavs won in Cleveland by 8 points and lost by 12 in OKC. Donovan Mitchell was out and SGA scored 35 points in the Cavs' loss. The game was tied after three quarters but OKC won the 4th by a 34-22 score. The Cavs were playing the second night of a back-to-back having played in Sacramento the night before.
 
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The Cavs play their first home game against the Oklahoma City Thunder, who also opened their season with a road win by a 124-104 score against the Bulls. Their entire starting lineup was between +8 and +19. To no one’s surprise Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) led the way with 31 points, 10 assists, and 5 rebounds.

You can’t glean much from one game so I pulled together some information on the Thunder from a few season previews.

From NBA.com:

The Oklahoma City Thunder took another step in their rebuild last season. They finished with a record of 40-42, only one game short of a postseason berth…With Shai Gilgeous-Alexander on the cusp of superstardom, several of the young Thunder prospects made strides including Lu Dort, Josh Giddey, Isaiah Joe and Jalen Williams. This was all done without the help of 2022 No. 2 overall pick Chet Holmgren, who missed last season due to a foot injury.

Holmgren appears to be full-go for camp after a stellar showing over the summer. After a relatively quiet offseason, Oklahoma City could be poised to become the surprise team of the Western Conference for 2023-24.

From si.com:

Oklahoma City just finished 40-42 in the Western Conference despite their best player, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, missing 14 games. In addition, Kenrich Williams and Aleksej Pokusevski — key rotation players — played in just 87 games combined.

By any measure, the Thunder were certainly operating with way less than a full deck…And they still managed to win 40 games.

Also, Oklahoma City probably won’t be rolling out dodgy, undersized centers in their starting lineups anymore. Now, they are armed with a healthy Chet Holmgren, a true seven-footer who has the skills to raise the floor and ceiling on both offense and defense. And Jaylin Williams, the backup center, has some two-way juice to his game, too. He showed that last year after leading the league in charges drawn and shooting above 40 percent from 3-point territory.

Gilgeous-Alexander, who just turned 25, is fresh off of earning a selection to First-Team All-NBA after averaging over 30 points per game on 62.6% true-shooting, and is the driving force behind this team.

Both Giddey and Jalen Williams were the clear “2A” and “2B” for the Thunder down the stretch. While both players got off to a slow start last season, they started to find their grooves as the season progressed — especially Williams. As Giddey continues to refine his shot and grow into his own as a scorer and playmaker, and Williams continues to transition his well-rounded game to the NBA, Oklahoma City is only going to get better.

Big picture, all of Gilgeous-Alexander, Giddey, Holmgren and Jalen Williams are just pieces of a larger puzzle. On their own, those four players represent a corp that any rebuilding NBA team would be happy to have.

From spin.ph:

Oklahoma City should be among the highest-scoring and most exciting teams in the league.

Oklahoma City also will have Chet Holmgren, the No. 2 pick in the 2022 draft who missed last season with a foot injury. In his first two preseason games, the 7-foot-1 forward/center averaged 18.5 points in 18.8 minutes of action. He has been matchup nightmare on offense who fills a key void by adding an elite rim protector on defense.

Josh Giddey was named to the All-Rookie second team two years ago, then averaged 16.6 points, 7.9 rebounds and 6.2 assists per game last season for the Thunder….

Jalen Williams, a 6-foot-6 guard/forward averaged 14.1 points and 4.5 rebounds last season. He was runner-up for Rookie of the Year and was on the All-Rookie first-team…

Lu Dort, known as one of the league’s top perimeter defenders, averaged 13.7 points for the Thunder last season…

The Thunder bench is stacked with young players who have gained experience during the rebuild the past few years.

Departures: None.
Additions: Holmgren, G Vasilije Micic, F Davis Bertans.

Player to watch: Holmgren. He added more than 10 pounds of muscle while recovering from his injury and has been playing fearlessly in the preseason. He should be a top contender for the rookie of the year award.

From VSin,com:

There is no hotter commodity this offseason in the NBA than the Oklahoma City Thunder, and for good reason…First and foremost, the Thunder have the key piece in a burgeoning superstar that is Gilgeous-Alexander. He ranked in the 93rd percentile at his position in points per 100 shot attempts (125.9), the 93rd percentile in offensive efficiency differential (+6.8) and finished fourth in scoring (31.4 points per game).

For a team to contend it needs a ball-dominant star who can score at every level, and Gilgeous-Alexander can do that. He even showed an improved stepback 3-point jumper in the FIBA World Cup, which would be an incredible addition to his offensive arsenal, as he shot just 35.8% from deep last season and only took 10% of his attempts from that area of the floor.

Josh Giddey is a brilliant offensive player who averaged 16.6 points, 7.9 rebounds and 6.2 assists in his sophomore season. His efficiency from deep can improve - he shot 32.5% on 3.1 attempts - but he’s a great facilitator who can run the offense at an effective level.

Luguentz Dort is an extremely talented defender who can take on the best perimeter scorer on any team in the league, including the likes of Luka Doncic. He is not an insanely efficient shooter, but he shot 39.8% from the corners last season, so teams must account for him as a spot-up shooter.

Jalen Williams emerged as an incredible talent last season as well and pushed Paolo Banchero for Rookie of the Year. He averaged 14.1 points, 4.5 rebounds and 3.3 assists on 52.1% shooting from the floor. Williams also proved to be an effective offensive rebounder who grabbed 3.6% of his teammates’ missed shots last season.

There is no denying this roster is laden with talent, and the returns for bettors have been tremendous. So, it is no surprise that this team is favored to make the postseason and has a win total on par with a team like Sacramento that won the third seed in the Western Conference last season.

However, it’s not a perfect team, and there are some issues the Thunder must figure out if they are to meet the expectations thrust upon them this season.

Oklahoma City struggled to find scoring options outside of Gilgeous-Alexander last season…When he left the floor, Oklahoma City went from 117.6 points per 100 possessions to 110.8 and their net rating suffered by 4.2 points per 100 possessions in those minutes.

This team does have concerns on defense as well.

Dort might be an elite on-ball defender, but the team’s defensive rating suffered with Gilgeous-Alexander and Giddey on the floor. Giddey in particular - due to his lack of quick-twitch speed and athleticism - was constantly taken advantage of by quicker perimeter players…they allowed the 10th-highest frequency of wide-open 3-point attempts.

Chet Holmgren’s presence should help ease some of the defensive concerns, especially regarding rim protection. Holmgren averaged 3.5 blocks in Summer League play…Oklahoma City desperately needed a center last season, and Holmgren fills a massive need.

Despite the defensive concerns, this team will be extremely productive this season.

John Hollinger:

As I mentioned last week, Oklahoma City has some strong arguments for why it might make a charge up the standings: The Thunder were a decent team last season, they are extremely young and thus likely to benefit from improvement up and down the roster, and they add Chet Holmgren to a roster that was effectively centerless in 2022-23.

That said, I remain somewhat skeptical of the Thunder’s immediate upside (as opposed to their longer-term upside, which remains immense)…

Last season’s Thunder also had a jaw-dropping turnover differential of plus-3.8 per game, a testament both to the skill of Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in creating paint shots without miscues and to a scrambling, undersized defense that pestered opponents into myriad mistakes. Holmgren will add his own impact defensively with elite rim protection that was, um, not really a thing in Oklahoma City last year, but the coverages with him are going to look a lot different than Mark Daigneault’s funhouse-mirror schemes of a year ago…

My comments:

1. The Thunder have a ton of young talent and it will be really interesting to see SGA, Chet Holmgren, and Giddey on the floor together. The big hole at center is gone.

2. Defense is the question. The Thunder could be involved in a lot of high scoring games this year. But adding last year’s #1 overall pick plus the internal improvement of young players like Giddey and Jalen Williams makes me think they will win more than 40 games this year, maybe a lot more. However, they allowed the 10th most wide open 3's last year so if that carries over the Cavs could be getting a lot of open looks tonight. This game could be a shootout, especially if Jarrett Allen can't go.

3. No word yet on Jarrett Allen's availability.

4. Key matchup: SGA against Okoro and LeVert. Against Brooklyn these two held Cam Thomas to three points in the 4th quarter after he scored 33 in the first three.

5. Last year the Cavs won in Cleveland by 8 points and lost by 12 in OKC. Donovan Mitchell was out and SGA scored 35 points in the Cavs' loss. The game was tied after three quarters but OKC won the 4th by a 34-22 score. The Cavs were playing the second night of a back-to-back having played in Sacramento the night before.
Great write-up as usual, Wham!

Yes, as @MirORich often reminds us, can't read much into one game. That said, OKC more or less showed the tendencies I expected from them in the opener, which I got very hyped about watching in real time in the Gen NBA thread :)

The starting lineup is the strength. They were in the positive the whole game. The bench was in the negative until the second half, when the shooting opened up thanks to good ball movement. OKC can often adjust during games like this because Daigneault is very good at utilizing TOs and changing lineups/approaches as the game goes on. Early, the Bulls were bullying and using physicality to their advantage. Drummond and Vucevic were basically knocking them around like bowling pins and grabbing lots of O boards. However, Daigneault seemed to notice that Coby White of the Bulls was basically freezing out Vucevic and refusing to pass to him even when he had mismatches in the post, so the physicality advantage was short-lived, and OKC eventually took advantage of their speed against the slower-footed Bulls, who struggled to get to the shooters in the second half. Dieng, Joe, and Wallace canned nine 3s from the outside, most of which came in the second half.

SGA will always get his. I hate the Trae comparisons I saw last year in some of the game threads; he's really much more like a more finesse Jimmy Butler. Yes, he gets to the line, but he is such a skilled jump shooter with great footwork and body control that he doesn't always need FTs to score. He got over 30 again in the opener, and that was with only 5 FTs. He's also a willing passer, and part of the reason OKC did so well in the second half last night was because he trusted his teammates to hit the open looks.

For the Cavs to win, they'll have to hope OKC will go cold from the outside, especially the second unit. Force Giddey to beat them from deep; Giddey still is a very inconsistent outside shooter and gets most of his points from drives. Dort also isn't a shooter; he seems to have hit his offensive ceiling and is OKC's weak link on offense in the starting unit, an essentially more aggressive Okoro. All he can do is use his strength to bully guys for drives. Williams is a little more versatile on offense, but he's still another the Cavs will want to keep out of the paint and force more to shoot. Holmgren is a great talent, but he appeared a tad tentative in the opener and obviously has much to learn as a guy who missed his entire rookie season and is still feeling things out. He's probably not ready to erupt for a massive scoring night just yet.

Basically if the Cavs can shut down the outside shooting from OKC, they can win.
 
You guys see Chet damn near get both his twig like ankles damn near snapped by Andre freaking Drummond the other night? Yikes . . .
 
I still have a 2016 Cavs championship t-shirt and an SGA rookie year CLIPPERS jersey I could put over it, lol. I think that would be too awkward :chuckle:
Wild to look back on that trade, by the way.

Due to even just having the respective players available to play… OKC made out in that swap. Factor in all the draft choices too and it’s not hard to see why they’re a darling pick around the league (and I mean that in a good way) as one of the up and coming franchises that will soon be ready to make a run.
 
I have watched the Thunder a lot the past few years. While they are very intriguing; ultimately half the guys everyone gets a hard-on for will be moved when they consolidate assets into bigger pieces. The praise has gotten to a point where I do think they are overrated.

The Thunder have a ton of length (like the Nets did) and we managed to play better than I expected to start the game. I do believe we still are significantly better than they are. Matchup wise I think we should be fine. I just hope the bench has a better shooting night since its a home game.

118-106 Cavs
 
You guys see Chet damn near get both his twig like ankles damn near snapped by Andre freaking Drummond the other night? Yikes . . .
Yeah I saw that and winced a bit before he got up. That's the thing with him and Wemby -- amazing talents and fluidity for their size, but you always wonder how those skinny bodies will hold up over time. Chet's already missed an entire season.
 
Wham's writeup is, as always, complete and amazing!

And awesome that KevinLoveFan is rocking a Solzhenitsyn quote for her tagline! So classy and erudite! I hadn't seen that ideology quote before -- it's a banger and I'll add it to my rotation along with my favorite one on the line separating good and evil.

Loving my RCF brothers and sisters! LET'S GO CAVS!
 
I have watched the Thunder a lot the past few years. While they are very intriguing; ultimately half the guys everyone gets a hard-on for will be moved when they consolidate assets into bigger pieces. The praise has gotten to a point where I do think they are overrated.

The Thunder have a ton of length (like the Nets did) and we managed to play better than I expected to start the game. I do believe we still are significantly better than they are. Matchup wise I think we should be fine. I just hope the bench has a better shooting night since its a home game.

118-106 Cavs
I think they hold on to the core of SGA, Giddey, and Chet (provided he stays healthy). SGA is the scorer and face of the franchise, Giddey is the taller Rubio who helps ball movement for everyone else, and Chet is the inside presence. I love Williams, but I see him always being a secondary type guy, and perhaps not enough of a knockdown shooter to stay long term. Players rarely become primary shooters several seasons into their career, so he might be one of the ones they move to get a complementary shooter/scorer to help out SGA. I suppose Giddey also COULD be moved if the right deal comes along for a player who can both distribute AND shoot, but I love his size for his skill set, and I'd think they'd have to get someone who could also defend to make up for that loss.
 
Yeah I saw that and winced a bit before he got up. That's the thing with him and Wemby -- amazing talents and fluidity for their size, but you always wonder how those skinny bodies will hold up over time. Chet's already missed an entire season.

yeah they just don't feel durable. You look at them and think this isn't gonna last. Not like Lebron, the Tonka Truck of superstars until recently.
 
Shai - DG
Dort - Mitchell
Giddey - Strus
Williams - Okoro
Chet - Mobley

Shai and Donovan will cancel out with their production; it's up to DG, Strus, and Mobley to win their match ups to get the victory. I'm envious of OKC's length, hoping cavs overcome it with good ball movement and better shooting.
 

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