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Andrew Wiggins

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I agree with the weakness with PER: As a quick and dirty way to compare players particularly superstars it's passable. Certainly with a #1 pick you are expecting a guy who is going to be a star where PER becomes more useful. Not a guy with worse numbers then Mike Miller.

It's weird watching him: I feel he should be better then he is because he is so athletic

Yeah, he really does seem to disappear at times because he cannot use a lot of his athleticism on offense since he can't create for him or others via the dribble. When he does try, he turns it over. THe last few games, he hasn't tried to at all and hasn't turned the ball over but in return, it's completely neutered him on offense. You would think, however, that he would be crashing the boards, getting into passing lanes, etc., but he doesn't seem to do that either.
 
Before summer league I felt all 3 of the first three picks could be superstars. But after summer league doubt did creep into my mind about Wiggins reaching that level. I still think he has a chance, because he's got a ton of natural gifts, but not being able to adequately dribble a basketball for a wing player really limits their ceiling.

I think I can safely say I have no qualms about moving Wiggins and had we kept him I'd have been pretty upset we passed on Parker. Part of the Wiggins vs. Parker argument was that the gap between Wiggins and Parker on defense was greater than the gap between them on offense. And there were a lot of good statistics to back this up. But this was a good case of college stats not being very useful. From the opening tip of the NBA season you could see just how much more developed Parker's offensive game was. Way, way ahead of Wiggins.

Agree about moving Wiggins. I think Parker's defense is still a very legitimate concern as is his inability to find anyone else on court leading to reduced overall offensive efficiency.

He has been a liability on defense, though, and as bad as Wiggins has been on offense, Parker has had less of a positive impact due to his poor defense and black hole offense (even though his individual efficiency has risen).

Parker's RPM (small sample size) is at -4.08, 417th place out of 430.

Per 100 possessions:

-6.4 on-court
-14.6 on-off

His team is considerably better with him off the court. He was a poor defender in college and now knows what he has to work on to be better and become a true difference maker.

Wiggins's RPM: -2.64

Per 100 possessions:

-10.2 on-court
+2.3 on-court

So, at the very least, his team is better with him ON the court which is something.
 
I may be wrong but I think this guy has the worst VORP in the league but he was the first pick in the draft so he may be good.
 
I may be wrong but I think this guy has the worst VORP in the league but he was the first pick in the draft so he may be good.


He and Zach Lavine are the bottom two in the NBA in VORP.
 
For anyone who still feels bad we traded Wiggy:
hi-res-23dbad7f96b9b3da503d87456bd58858_crop_north.jpg


Saunders said he expected Wiggins and Bennett to have a little extra motivation going into the game on Tuesday night against the team that traded them. "There's always motivation," Wiggins said. "I think that's obvious."

Does he feel any connection to the Cavaliers organization? "No," Wiggins said with a chuckle. "I was there for like three days," :chuckle:

Even though wins are hard to come by, Wiggins reiterated that Minnesota is a better situation for him at this point in his career.

"I'm being put in a bigger position, a bigger role here than I would've been on that team," Wiggins said. "That's just helping me grow more mentally and physically.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...innesota-timberwolves-fans-forgive-kevin-love
 
How many points are we expecting him to score tonight
 
Just to calm everyone down that was regretting the Love trade in the game thread - I've watched about 12 Wiggins games this year and this was along with a game about 3 weeks ago by far his two best games.

I used him in several fanduel lineups, it was pretty obvious he would have a grudge against the team that traded him. Sure hes going to be a good player, I doubt he is ever as good as Love is in his prime though.

View: https://twitter.com/mcten/status/547573604570120192
 
His PER may get worse: 2-8 tonight for 5 points. Not sure what has happened, teams seems have to have scouted him out. Of course, that means he's going to explode against us :chuckle:
And of course he exploded against us lol. Oh well love in that game thread how everyone is slobbering over Wiggins without watching him the last few weeks. He was due for a good game
 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs0NxRNiSRA


Wiggins showed his game last night. He had a stretch of bad games and before Parker's injury, I thought Parker was the better rookie due to a recent string of good games. Andrew has had good and bad stretches this season. If Rubio was not injured and the Wolves didn't have their other injuries, they would be a much better team.

The way Wiggins is right now, he could easily do the "Marion" role on this team. A few games this year Wiggins rebounded the ball well and he is just a long guy. Maybe he's not as long as a Tayshaun Prince but the same principle applies. Wiggins can play and feel bigger than his height (which is already good) due to his length and flexibility. Interesting player. I said it before and I'll say it again - barring injuries, he should be a good player sooner than some might think. When he can set his feet, his jumper looks good. It's better now than in the Summer League.
 
I was impressed with his strength being so skinny. He backed Lebron down at one point and got to the basket. He was so quick and his ball handling is getting better.

I think he looks great for a raw player. He doesn't even have a mans body yet.

He played good individual d on Lebron too.

His willingness to scrum with our Biggs was also impressive.
 
So Wiggins is going to be good. Very good. But in no way does this a bad trade. Kevin Love is already good and Bennett continues to amaze me that he struggles so much with all of those tools.
 
So Wiggins is going to be good. Very good. But in no way does this a bad trade. Kevin Love is already good and Bennett continues to amaze me that he struggles so much with all of those tools.

Exactly.
 
For all those of you who jumped on the Wiggins bandwagon last night maybe you should jump off. Enjoy!

DataLab

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Basketball

Forget The Next LeBron, Andrew Wiggins May Not Be The Next James Posey
12:22 PM By Neil Paine

nsb_0625.jpg

Andrew Wiggins of the Minnesota Timberwolves posts up against LeBron James of the Cleveland Cavaliers on Tuesday at Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland.

Nathaniel S. Butler / NBAE / Getty Images

Basketball’s present and future collided Tuesday night as LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers defeated Andrew Wiggins and the Minnesota Timberwolves, 125-104.

Over the summer, Cleveland and Minnesota inked one of the NBA’s biggest blockbuster trades in years, with the Timberwolves shipping frustrated superstar Kevin Love to the Cavs for Wiggins and fellow former No. 1 overall NBA draft pick Anthony Bennett as part of a three-team trade. The trade helped Cleveland build a core of stars featuring James, Love and point guard Kyrie Irving, and kicked off yet another rebuilding project in Minnesota.

Wiggins is the centerpiece of that undertaking. He was regarded as the best prospect in this past summer’s draft. As a young player growing up in Canada, Wiggins was even thought by some in the hoops cognoscenti to be the second coming of James or Kobe Bryant, placing him in the company of the two best high school perimeter-player prospects of the last 20 years. (There’s a reason my colleague Bill Simmons coined the phrase “Riggin’ for Wiggins” to describe teams that began tanking several seasons in advance for a shot at 2014’s No. 1 overall pick.)

Wiggins had one of the best games of his young career on Tuesday against the team that drafted him (notably, he posterized Love midway through the third quarter), and scouting assessments still say he has the potential to be in James’s class of all-timers. But there’s also no denying that Wiggins has struggled thus far as a rookie. In no measurable area of the game, save for long-distance shooting and (maybe) defense, is he anywhere near as polished as James was at the same age a decade ago.

In fact, Wiggins has been one of the worst players in basketball this season — period. Among players logging as many minutes as he has, nobody has a lower Statistical Plus/Minus (SPM) or Box Plus/Minus (BPM) or fewer Win Shares per 48 minutes. And only Channing Frye has a lower Player Efficiency Rating. ESPN’s Real Plus/Minus is slightly kinder to Wiggins, but not by much.

Maybe it’s time to forget James as the potential ceiling for Wiggins and to simply wonder what the best-case scenario is for a player who starts off his career this badly.

Since SPM can be computed going back to the NBA-ABA merger in 1976, we can use history as a guide here. Wiggins currently has a dreadful -4.8 SPM in 834 minutes, but he’s unlikely to continue to be quite so bad, due to regression to the mean. So how do we account for that? According to a formula by the inventor of BPM, Daniel Myers, the standard error around a box score plus/minus estimate in 834 minutes is about +/- 2.5 rating points. We also have a prior for Wiggins based on his draft position: namely, that 19-year old former No. 1 overall picks tend to have an SPM of +0.2 as rookies, with a standard error of +/- 2.1 points. Combining those four pieces of information using Bayes’ theorem, our best guess at Wiggins’s true talent level is a -1.9 SPM.

That means we can project him to play at a -1.9 SPM level over the remainder of the season. And if we expect him to play about 93 percent of the Timberwolves’ 55 remaining games (using an old rule of thumb from Houston Rockets analyst Ed Kupfer about predicting games missed) at his current rate of 31 minutes per game, that gives him about 1,580 minutes at -1.9 SPM to go with the 834 minutes of -4.8 SPM he’s already banked.

At the end of the season, then, our best guess is that Wiggins will have posted a -2.9 SPM in about 2,400 minutes.

While that means Wiggins is no longer in Adam Morrison territory, not many players with a -2.9 SPM their rookie season end up having great careers. A sampling of players in that range as rookies includes Ben McLemore, Anthony Johnson, Gordan Giricek, Kevin Edwards and Vernon Maxwell, with Glen Rice and Rex Chapman representing the absolute best-case scenarios. But Wiggins is also much younger than those players were when they were rookies, so we need to adjust the rookie SPM numbers using an aging curve.

Doing that — putting everyone on equal footing using what their equivalent rookie SPM would be at age 22 (the average age of an NBA rookie going back to the merger) — paints a rosier picture for Wiggins. His projected age-22-equivalent rookie SPM of +0.2 ranks 14th out of the 43 wing players in the historical sample who played between 2,000 and 2,500 minutes as rookies and are currently 30 or older — giving us a chance to see how their careers panned out according to peak wins above replacement (WAR):

paine-datalab-wiggins.png


Based on the relationship between age-equivalent rookie SPM and peak WAR for that group, Wiggins looks to be on track for about 6 WAR in the best season of his career. That’d be a major disappointment if the comparison point is James (who tallied nearly 26 WAR in his best year), but then again, it’s better than you might expect based on Wiggins’s horrid statistical production as an NBA rookie thus far.
 
3 point shooting and shooting in general was supposed to be a weakness of his. It isn't going to be. He looks like he is going to be a good shooter. So what's the worst case scenario?

I think it has to be a 3 and d player who is really amazing on D. Notice how many posters Lebron had on him. Lebron tried to take him to the rack and had to pass out more than once.

He can obviously get to the rack a little bit. I dunno I think he has a Paul George trajectory ahead for him.
 

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