Are the Cavs in danger of becoming irrelevant in this town?

[PosterTime]

Could be, but without actual scientific evidence (such as a bone density measurement) any situation can be dismissed by the ridiculously small sample size.

I just don't think statistical analysis is appropriate.

Either he has a higher chance of injury than other players (due to whatever specific factors that may effect him) or he doesn't. Heck, for all we know he has an undiagnosed bone disease. *shrugs*

His rookie year "injuries" were a concussion and a bullshit, tank-a-licious, shoulder injury that kept him out WAY longer than necessary.

He broke his hand by pimp-smacking a cement wall that wasn't as padded as he thought.

He then broke a finger by playing basketball.

STOP WITH THE INJURY PRONE BULLSHIT.

In an important season, he plays through the finger injury and he hardly misses time with the shoulder injury.

Our tank is magnifying his injuries and extending them.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

I tend to agree with the sentiment here. People were packing the stadium for years when the Browns came back. This was, and still is in many ways, a Browns town. But, people stopped belieiving in ownership. Randy was more interested in soccer than he was his Dad's football team. And people started resenting what they saw as absentee ownership...the results led to what is now a half full stadium.

People resent the Dolan group, as well. They half ass everything. We want a real investing of the on field product, yet what we get is a FO that seemingly has daily think tanks on what new and exciting promotion will be bring the faithful back. Doesn't work that way. Invest that time in learning how to draft properly and dollar hot dog nights won't be your biggest pull...your players will. Noone expects them to spend with the Yanks, but they could at least draft like they have a clue. Without good drafting, this team is bound for the scrap heap, minus a fluke year or two with a bunch of overachievers giving false hope.

People believe in Dan Gilbert. He has already made himself a significant part of the town. The plan, as diagramed, at least has some teeth. Now, can CG pull it off? I dunno. But, I do know he has the advantage of a salary cap. He has the ability to go over the cap, with an owner who will spend when he is told to. The tribe's brass does not have those advantages. So, there's very few fans who will blame DG for any of this. So, in the end, at this point of the build, I think DG still has a lot of faith with the fanbase....and deservedly so.

I agree, I think a lot of people will come back once we start to win. Just basketball is not one of those sports, where fans follow them when they are bad. In football, a bad team can still be watchable. In basketball, not so much.

 

[Randolphkeys]

It's one thing to conceptualize the Cavaliers plan this season, and it is entirely different to experience it. At some point this summer, it became clear the Cavs weren't going to surrender any cap flexibility past this season. On a team lacking more than two players in the prime of their careers, it sent a clear message that the front office wanted more talent and potential than wins. Look at the Knicks: they have a bunch of old but experienced geezers they signed short-term... and they might be one of the top ten teams for the first time in years. Look at Golden State: they tanked for one year, and made a grand push in free agency this year. They could be a top 10 team as well.

So it is tough to stomach this long rebuild. Most franchises don't have the discipline. I think it is completely fair for fans to begin to question the time table this front office has expected us to acquiesce.

 

[RDriesen]

Why? That would make us irrelevant in this town for sure.

Others have said it better than I could, but I like having guys I can count on. I think it is really tough for a team to win when you can't count on players, especially your best player, to play the majority of the games each year.

 

[RDriesen]

His rookie year "injuries" were a concussion and a bullshit, tank-a-licious, shoulder injury that kept him out WAY longer than necessary.

He broke his hand by pimp-smacking a cement wall that wasn't as padded as he thought.

He then broke a finger by playing basketball.

STOP WITH THE INJURY PRONE BULLSHIT.

In an important season, he plays through the finger injury and he hardly misses time with the shoulder injury.

Our tank is magnifying his injuries and extending them.

All I see is a player who has missed a lot of games the last 3 years (including his year at Duke). I don't care how he was injured or what the injuries were. All that matters to me is he was injured and missed a lot of games.

 

[czvo]

All I see is a player who has missed a lot of games the last 3 years (including his year at Duke). I don't care how he was injured or what the injuries were. All that matters to me is he was injured and missed a lot of games.

Context matters.

 

[Steve_424]

A few things...

1) While the Browns are the "default" favorite, it's only when all three teams are playing at the same level. No doubt, the Browns are Cleveland's favorite sports franchise. But fans also gravitate toward a contending Cleveland team. The Indians owned the 90's, and the Browns moving wouldn't have changed that. The Cavs owned Cleveland during the LeBron Era.

2) The Browns' recent success is nice, and I hate to be a wet blanket here, but it's come against the Bengals (7-6), Chargers (5-8), Steelers (7-6), Raiders (3-10), and Chiefs (2-11). They'll likely beat Washington if RG3 is out but will probably lose to both Denver and Pittsburgh, leaving them at 6-10. It would be their 5th straight losing season, and their 12th losing season in the 14 seasons since they returned. They have a lot of good young talent, but they are still a long way away from being a serious contender.

3) The Indians are my favorite Cleveland team (by far), but it's now looking like it will now be 2013 (at the earliest) before they can seriously contend again.

4) The Cavs have a superstar (Irving) to build around. That's half the battle in the NBA. If they hit on this coming draft and improve via trades/free agency next summer, they should be a playoff team next year, and will only get better as Irving improves.

 

[RDriesen]

Context matters.

So, does the context change the fact he missed games? All that matters is he has missed a lot of games for 3 straight years. Not sure how anyone can look at this and say he isn't injury prone.

 

[Birdy89]

Context matters.

How does context make better the fact that in his past 3 seasons he has been unable to play a season without missing significant time?

Should we just call him terribly unlucky instead of "injury prone" that he can't manage to stay on a court for an entire season to help his team on a regular basis.

Doesn't matter what you label it really, but it is becoming something to be concerned about.

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

the context is that his two "real" injuries were a concussion and a broken hand, two "well shit, not much you can do there" injuries. I will gladly wager money that his toe at Duke, his shoulder and finger here were all prolonged to not risk anything and if we were a playoff team in win now mode, he would not have missed nearly as much time. He was held out extra at Duke to not hurt his NBA chances..he knew he made it, why risk it?

Missing 2 games vs 4 weeks for a broken finger matters a lot with context. Was he still injured? sure, but missing 2 games is much more acceptable and forgettable than holding out as long as possible for the tank

 

[randymoss1881]

If you watched kyrie and waiters play early in the season and wernt happy where this team is headed then i dont know what to tell you. You also add a defender in Thompson a rookie center who shows promise in Zeller who was stolen at 17 and you have yourself a good core. Again we still have trade chips and we could trade AV if we choose and we could score in this draft. Im happy our GM isnt trying to hurry up the rebuild and trade for Ariza and okafor

 

[Anglefan]

3) The Indians are my favorite Cleveland team (by far), but it's now looking like it will now be 2013 (at the earliest) before they can seriously contend again.

What year do you think it is now?

 

[shoes22]

It's one thing to conceptualize the Cavaliers plan this season, and it is entirely different to experience it. At some point this summer, it became clear the Cavs weren't going to surrender any cap flexibility past this season. On a team lacking more than two players in the prime of their careers, it sent a clear message that the front office wanted more talent and potential than wins. Look at the Knicks: they have a bunch of old but experienced geezers they signed short-term... and they might be one of the top ten teams for the first time in years. Look at Golden State: they tanked for one year, and made a grand push in free agency this year. They could be a top 10 team as well.

So it is tough to stomach this long rebuild. Most franchises don't have the discipline. I think it is completely fair for fans to begin to question the time table this front office has expected us to acquiesce.

This is an important point when considering the Cavs rebuild. The thing with the Knicks is they could compete for the championship this year and next year...but after that they're screwed.

Chris Grant seems to be going the ambitious route and trying to build a dynasty of some sort, or a team that can compete for a championship for several years. It's incredibly risky, because the potential for failure is way higher.

 

[BuddyCowley]

 

[Frank Reynolds]

It's one thing to conceptualize the Cavaliers plan this season, and it is entirely different to experience it. At some point this summer, it became clear the Cavs weren't going to surrender any cap flexibility past this season. On a team lacking more than two players in the prime of their careers, it sent a clear message that the front office wanted more talent and potential than wins. Look at the Knicks: they have a bunch of old but experienced geezers they signed short-term... and they might be one of the top ten teams for the first time in years. Look at Golden State: they tanked for one year, and made a grand push in free agency this year. They could be a top 10 team as well.

So it is tough to stomach this long rebuild. Most franchises don't have the discipline. I think it is completely fair for fans to begin to question the time table this front office has expected us to acquiesce.

It's really tough to stomach, but I am surprised that we have the discipline (thus far) to truly assemble a tank. I didn't think the high character man, Chris Grant had it in him to intentionally assemble a dud roster for the sake of more draft selections.

It's kinda impressive, because it tells me that they know what it takes to truly contend. We could very easily be like the Houston Rockets or the Minnesota Timberwolves if we wanted to go out and sign some better players.

But you know and I know that Houston, Atlanta, Minnesota, Portland......is never going to even sniff a ring. Those teams certainly might be more watchable than the Cavaliers, but they will NEVER win.


The fact that we're using the opposite approach of those teams gives me a sliver of hope that maybe we're onto something.

It's Chris Grant's use of the cap, free agency and trades that will either guide us into the promised land or cause us to tumble back down again.