Browns stadium thread: To dome or not to dome

[B Mac]

If we're gonna mess with a landfill, why not just dig up the bodies from that cemetery next to progressive? That spot is a tremendous waste of land.

I’ve drunkenly pissed in that cemetery more times than I care to admit.

So it does have at least one use.

 

[Benway]

This story ends in Brook Park.

 

[inliner311]

If we're gonna mess with a landfill, why not just dig up the bodies from that cemetery next to progressive? That spot is a tremendous waste of land.

So when I look at the Brookpark land and think of it as a swap for the post office, it really makes a lot of sense. That post office is a regional sorting center for all of greater Cleveland. The highway access would be better because it is bypassing the city but still have quick access in every direction for the major highways. It's literally right across the street from the airport. The railroad lines is something Im not so sure about but I do know there is rail lines right there next to 480.

Like if I want that postal office land and I'm going to propose a swap of land to build USPS a new sorting center that Brookpark land is what I'm proposing we buy up to give to them. They serve the whole area with that sorting facility not just the city of Cleveland. Most of the population lives outside of the city of Cleveland so there is little reason to bring everything into the city just to take it back out to the suburbs.

 

[Benway]

So when I look at the Brookpark land and think of it as a swap for the post office, it really makes a lot of sense. That post office is a regional sorting center for all of greater Cleveland. The highway access would be better because it is bypassing the city but still have quick access in every direction for the major highways. It's literally right across the street from the airport. The railroad lines is something Im not so sure about but I do know there is rail lines right there next to 480.

Like if I want that postal office land and I'm going to propose a swap of land to build USPS a new sorting center that Brookpark land is what I'm proposing we buy up to give to them. They serve the whole area with that sorting facility not just the city of Cleveland. Most of the population lives outside of the city of Cleveland so there is little reason to bring everything into the city just to take it back out to the suburbs.

Huge difference in acreage. Brook Park will allow Haslam to collect $1million in parking every game.

 

[inliner311]

Huge difference in acreage. Brook Park will allow Haslam to collect $1million in parking every game.

I think what they give up in parking gets offset by the potential income and more long term viability of the mixed use building they will have downtown around the new stadium. Their entertainment district will get foot traffic from the guardians and the Cavs. They don't have to establish a new area that people go out in. Downtown is an area that people have always gone out in. Every other spot goes through it's peaks and valley that sometimes gets cast aside by a new hot spot to go out at.

I also think they have an easier time attracting and keeping people living in luxury apartments if they choose to build those downtown vs Brookpark. Same thing if it's office space.

 

[Lee]

I’ve drunkenly pissed in that cemetery more times than I care to admit.

So it does have at least one use.

No shit?

 

[Benway]

I think what they give up in parking gets offset by the potential income and more long term viability of the mixed use building they will have downtown around the new stadium. Their entertainment district will get foot traffic from the guardians and the Cavs. They don't have to establish a new area that people go out in. Downtown is an area that people have always gone out in. Every other spot goes through it's peaks and valley that sometimes gets cast aside by a new hot spot to go out at.

I also think they have an easier time attracting and keeping people living in luxury apartments if they choose to build those downtown vs Brookpark. Same thing if it's office space.

The City of Cleveland is facing tall odds.

 

[inliner311]

The City of Cleveland is facing tall odds.

Right but the city of Cleveland has the most to lose if they move out to Brookpark. For the county it's most likely going to be a wash because whatever new revenue the Brookpark complex will generate, it will take revenue away from somewhere else in the county.

Not only will the city of Cleveland lose Browns games. They will lose people coming to downtown from the suburbs on the weekends to go to the Brookpark complex. The big concerts that the Q gets will most likely shift to the Browns dome. Who knows what else the complex will have but the more stuff it has the more likely it will pull away from downtown.

 

[B Mac]

I think what they give up in parking gets offset by the potential income and more long term viability of the mixed use building they will have downtown around the new stadium. Their entertainment district will get foot traffic from the guardians and the Cavs. They don't have to establish a new area that people go out in. Downtown is an area that people have always gone out in. Every other spot goes through it's peaks and valley that sometimes gets cast aside by a new hot spot to go out at.

I also think they have an easier time attracting and keeping people living in luxury apartments if they choose to build those downtown vs Brookpark. Same thing if it's office space.

This is the ideal spot for so many fans, but I think we just need to let the dream die. The amount of land in those two areas really aren’t comparable. There simply isn’t enough land at the post office spot for the stadium, hotels, restaurants, and parking.

This is a money move for Jimmy. I can’t blame him, but it sure would be nice if some miracle comes into play.

 

[Benway]

Right but the city of Cleveland has the most to lose if they move out to Brookpark. For the county it's most likely going to be a wash because whatever new revenue the Brookpark complex will generate, it will take revenue away from somewhere else in the county.

Not only will the city of Cleveland lose Browns games. They will lose people coming to downtown from the suburbs on the weekends to go to the Brookpark complex. The big concerts that the Q gets will most likely shift to the Browns dome. Who knows what else the complex will have but the more stuff it has the more likely it will pull away from downtown.

Basically, they need to come up with 176 acres, stat.

 

[inliner311]

This is the ideal spot for so many fans, but I think we just need to let the dream die. The amount of land in those two areas really aren’t comparable. There simply isn’t enough land at the post office spot for the stadium, hotels, restaurants, and parking.

This is a money move for Jimmy. I can’t blame him, but it sure would be nice if some miracle comes into play.

I think if the Haslams wanted to pay for it all themselves, it would be Brookpark. The city of Cleveland pitching in a certain amount of money is most likely going to be the difference. Brookpark only has a population of 18,000 vs 360,000 for the city of Cleveland. Whatever tax that Cleveland can figure out to put toward the stadium is going to be significantly. Also approval of any county tax that is needed is going to be a hard sell if the Cleveland city officials tell their voting blocks to vote no. They are about 25% of the population of Cuyahoga county.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I think if the Haslams wanted to pay for it all themselves, it would be Brookpark. The city of Cleveland pitching in a certain amount of money is most likely going to be the difference. Brookpark only has a population of 18,000 vs 360,000 for the city of Cleveland. Whatever tax that Cleveland can figure out to put toward the stadium is going to be significantly. Also approval of any county tax that is needed is going to be a hard sell if the Cleveland city officials tell their voting blocks to vote no. They are about 25% of the population of Cuyahoga county.

I believe their is money already set aside, by both Cuyahoga and the state, pledged to the stadium project. Now if we are talking new taxes, then that may be a problem, sure.

I know I read an article about Minnesota running a pull tab game for the new Vikings Stadium and that's likely to be the next thing the Browns do. There are other ways to do this other than simply having new taxes.

Truthfully, the city of Cleveland should be happy. The economic impact of losing the Browns is very slight, as tailgating downtown will likely still happen; at least for the ones that happen at bars. And now they don't have to justify money on a stadium and can use it for stuff they truly need, like schools and infrastructure that are both falling apart.

 

[bigfoot5415]

What if they just move the headstones?

Edit: like we haven't been afflicted with a poltergeist for a generation?

That's how I feel

 

[inliner311]

I believe their is money already set aside, by both Cuyahoga and the state, pledged to the stadium project. Now if we are talking new taxes, then that may be a problem, sure.

I know I read an article about Minnesota running a pull tab game for the new Vikings Stadium and that's likely to be the next thing the Browns do. There are other ways to do this other than simply having new taxes.

Truthfully, the city of Cleveland should be happy. The economic impact of losing the Browns is very slight, as tailgating downtown will likely still happen; at least for the ones that happen at bars. And now they don't have to justify money on a stadium and can use it for stuff they truly need, like schools and infrastructure that are both falling apart.

So the county portion of it would most likely be allocated from the sin tax but that expires in 2035 and right now it's around 14 million a year split between all 3 teams. Browns have 54 million saved up but 40 million in debt on the stadium still. That most likely will have to be renewed and possibly redone with new amounts to make for either new dome or renovations.

The state portion is something they got to negotiate. I think that's where the pull tabs could be used since charitable gambling would be under state law. The revenue generated by pull tabs is a big unknown though because Minnesota didn't have legalize gambling and we really don't know how many people will use it. There will have to be backup plans for shortfalls especially with pull tabs.

Then the city has to figure out how they find their portion which I think is really up in the air. I'm sure they will put a tax on tickets. I think they have to figure out how much taxes they will lose vs how much they will gain. They will lose all the tax from the players salaries and all the people that work at the stadium. Also visiting players pay taxes on their salary for each game. The city owns the muni lot so that revenue would be gone.

For the city I don't think it's as simple as saying goodbye to the browns and reallocating that money because we truly don't know how much the browns generate for the city. Also we don't know how much this new Brookpark complex will pull always from the city. Like they will most likely pull away a good amount of big concerts from the Q because the dome will have a bigger capacity. We also don't know what entertainment the Brookpark complex will have. Bars will pull money away from the city. A smaller concert venue would also pull away from places like house of blues. I'm not sure if they could put a casino in but that would definitely tax away from the city if they did.

 

[Erbium]

Much smaller scale, but the new Crew Stadium was $313.8 million: $217.5 million in private money, plus $20 million from the state, $25 million from a state-funded loan and $51.3 million in bonds paid for by Franklin County.

Lower.com Stadium was built downtown, and has rejuvenated attendance...not to mention the real estate development opportunities of the new area around this stadium office/parking/commercial/residential.

Brook Park would not offer the same return on investment (in my opinion) for the real estate play, which is almost always where the real money is...

The answer is downtown, and I see this as a leverage play, much like the Bears move on Chicago.

I agree completely with a dome, and I will never understand why you would build the stadium on the water (again), when that land would be much better served long term with waterfront residential....find a site downtown. It's not as though the place is bustling, and doesnt have buildings and other lands that can be put to pasture...

My concern here is Cleveland doesn't see this as an opportunity to fix some of their past mistakes, and build that City in a way that actually makes it embrace the waterfront...