Cavs Trade w/ Memphis (Speights, Selby, Ellington, and #1 pick for Leuer)

[Jack Brickman]

Yeah I agree. It reminds me how the Indians front office had to explain to the fans and media why they had to trade away their star players that still had a year or two under contract. Except Hollinger did so more eloquently.

Yup. It's damage control, plain and simple.

 

[Douglar]

Yup. It's damage control, plain and simple.

I think it's more like a valuable lesson about how important roster flexibility is in the NBA. Once a team paints itself into the corner with bad contracts, any potential trade partner wants a pound of flesh to do a deal because the team just doesn't have the options that most teams have. We should count ourselves lucky that we were the team that got the payout for Memphis's bad decisions three years ago.

Let's also hope that we avoid being that team in the future. Where would the Cavs be right now if they had signed an above average FA for $10Mil a year last summer? We wouldn't have Ellington, Speights and Memphis' 2016 first round draft pick. We wouldn't have a chance a pulling a deal like that again next summer either.

 

[wuck]

I don't know if a more experienced front office guy says phrases like:

"Speights deal for both this year and next was the way to achieve the greatest savings at the least basketball cost." Though true, kind-of insulting (least basketball cost) to Ellington (not even mentioned), Speights (referred to as a deal not a player), Selby (not even mentioned). Could have put his words in GM speak.

"it’s possible he opts out of his deal now that he’s in Cleveland and getting minutes and playing well". Again, kind-of-insulting (now that he's playing well). Also not sure it's right for him to comment on whether another team's player will or won't opt out of a deal.

I realize it was an explanation for Memphis fans (and other critics), and I'm fine with Hollinger saying whatever he wants. I find it interesting. But the kind of phrasing he used made it seem like this is a new world for him.

Not really a big deal, but some of that language seemed different from what we typically hear from GMs. Probably could have explained things without as much detail and still hit the key points like the incentive clauses.

 

[Nathan S]

Looking back now, this trade completely ruined the chemistry of our tank, probably adding 5 or 6 wins over the remainder of the season. Are the potential long-term pieces we gained worth this significant drop in draft position?

 

[Jack Brickman]

Looking back now, this trade completely ruined the chemistry of our tank, probably adding 5 or 6 wins over the remainder of the season. Are the potential long-term pieces we gained worth this significant drop in draft position?

In this draft? I'd say yes.

Ellington looks like he could be a keeper and that Memphis pick could become very valuable in a few years, whether as our own pick or as a piece in a trade. Draft picks are assets that are only becoming more valuable under the new CBA.

 

[Douglar]

Looking back now, this trade completely ruined the chemistry of our tank, probably adding 5 or 6 wins over the remainder of the season. Are the potential long-term pieces we gained worth this significant drop in draft position?

It probably drops the Cavs a couple seeds in the lottery. Maybe 6-8 seed instead of 4-6. Hard to say. But even from early in the year, the Cavs front office was saying things like "you'll see improvement this year". They were giving the impression that they weren't planning on tanking until the end of the year.

March is going to be a tough month. There will be plenty of losses. Hard to see the Cavs doing much better than 4 & 10 in March. We'll be fine as long as the team doesn't go over 30 wins.

 

[Dr. Gymbo]

Looking back now, this trade completely ruined the chemistry of our tank, probably adding 5 or 6 wins over the remainder of the season. Are the potential long-term pieces we gained worth this significant drop in draft position?

Please leave the wistfulness for the tank over in the tanking thread. I won't bog this thread down with more tanking debate, but I will say that the pro-tanking sentiment needs to end at some point around here. When is it going to be enough for some people?

This trade was a win for the future of the organization. I think the collection of future assets is genius because the ability to get future first round draft picks are going to become extremely difficult to get as the CBA unfolds further into the future. Even moreso when the Cavs are actually making the playoffs - teams aren't going to want to dole out picks to a playoff team.

If we were able to get a serviceable role player like Wayne Ellington for nothing and then are able to retain him for essentially nothing, how does that not benefit the team long term? Even it means he (and Speights) cost the Cavs a few ping pong balls. A team comprised of 4-5 top 5 picks isn't a good thing, especially once they all start to come off of their rookie contracts. This new CBA prevents keeping them all.

 

[wuck]

Looking back now, this trade completely ruined the chemistry of our tank, probably adding 5 or 6 wins over the remainder of the season. Are the potential long-term pieces we gained worth this significant drop in draft position?

I moved some of the general tank discussion posts to the tank thread.

The rationale for moving them is that it will be a long time until we can fully evaluate this trade. We might know more by the time this draft rolls around, or if/when we trade the Memphis first-rounder, or if/when we use the Memphis first-rounder.

One thing that does seem clear, since Memphis has run off a bunch of wins, is that they are headed to the playoffs this year. So they will almost surely give up their 2013 first-rounder, and there won't be any extra delay for the Cavs to qualify for the 2015 first-rounder (then the protection issues kick in). That's a good thing in terms of the pick's value.

What the Cavs do with that first-rounder (whether in a trade or as a pick) may balance out (or far outweigh) anything that happens in the 2013 draft.

Anyway, longwinded reason of why the general tank argument has moved.

 

[Douglar]

I appreciate that Hollinger was interviewed about it and answered questions, but I'm surprised that the Memphis front office thought it was worth explaining things in that much detail. He has to learn the vague, ambiguous, unhelpful language of GM speak.

Seems like the journalist in Hollinger can't be shut up quite so quickly. One of the things that sucks about basketball analytics is that unlike baseball, the teams got hip to the process early on. Just about anyone who what written something interesting has been hired, sequestered, and hidden away and all that's left for public consumption are the Peltons of the world.

I hope Hollinger keeps speaking his mind, get fired and comes back to journalism.