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David Blatt is a former NBA coach

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Lebron may not run the offense much, but Delly does. He has been building leads at the end of the games with it too, that Lebron has also halted at times. Its one reason Blatt loves Delly.

Weaves oops off penetration. Pick and roll at top of the key to get a smaller guard on Lebron. Double pick by both bugs at the top of two key. I dont understand how the different horns plays work very well, but I recognize it when it happens. There are multiple options to go to the high post or hit the roll man.
 
...But really why am I discussing defensive shifts with you if you don't believe they happen, can't see them, and follow the beat company line that LeBron is carrying the Cavs in spite of Blatt.
Thank you Chris, but you're wrong on this. You're not discussing it only with him - I'm here, and plenty more like me, who would love to understand a little more about the game. I wish I was BB-savvy, so I could actually dismantle these arguments, and I value your (And quite a few other posters') insights as input.
I've read the articles, but they usually highlight certain plays rather than, say, changed tactics mid-game so I see little examples of coaching.
 
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I can give you a list of what I would describe as specifics.
Thanks for giving it a go.

I doubt you will have anything to say about them that is positive but here goes:
That is pretty uncalled for. I have said numerous positive things about Blatt all year.

1) He's made good subsitutions in the playoffs, outside of starting Miller. The Kyrie situation is very tricky and I think despite Kyries bad performance, Blatt has walked that tightrope between not playing him enough and playing him too much pretty well.
Eh. Miller was a disaster and he is playing the only players capable of contributing right now due to injury. Should he be praised for not playing Harris and Haywood? Lots of people here think Marion should be getting Jones' minutes considering Jones is a ghost out there and is playing no defense. I think I agree with them but would be interested in hearing those ideas developed.

7) He's been praised by the media frequently for the plays he calls coming out of a timeout. When there's time to run a set play, he generally comes up with very good ones.
The stuff you listed between here is pretty soft and not specific. Totally agree with you on this one, but he's been doing this all year.

I'm sure there are more knowledgeable posters here who could present you with more ideas...
That's what I am hoping to read :)
 
Thanks for giving it a go.


That is pretty uncalled for. I have said numerous positive things about Blatt all year.


Eh. Miller was a disaster and he is playing the only players capable of contributing right now due to injury. Should he be praised for not playing Harris and Haywood? Lots of people here think Marion should be getting Jones' minutes considering Jones is a ghost out there and is playing no defense. I think I agree with them but would be interested in hearing those ideas developed.


The stuff you listed between here is pretty soft and not specific. Totally agree with you on this one, but he's been doing this all year.


That's what I am hoping to read :)
Perhaps it would help if you identified what specifics you consider acceptable and then maybe if people have any of that info they can post it? I'm not exactly sure what these "specifics" are that you are referring to. It seems like someone would have offered it by now unless the specifics you seek is info that only the Cavs staff has access to, in which case I guess we're at a dead end?
 
"Lebron completely threw Blatt's offense out of the window and installed his own. He comes in and out of the game whenever he wants. He overrides plays at the end of the game. None of this is Blatt's fault. It is Lebron's. But you guys can only see this as attacking Blatt."

None of this is actually true. Clearly you've allowed ax-grinding Blatt writers to spin it their way.
Clearly nothing. Going to have to disagree with you here and I would appreciate not being swept up in some ongoing media feud. All of this has come from my own eyes except for the overriding plays at the end of the game, which admittedly came from Lebron's own mouth during a recent interview.

I saw what Blatt ran in the summer league and beginning of the year. It was awesome. We were doing elaborate weaves, multiple layers of off ball screening, decoy plays, even some elevators - all stuff that Mike Miller said was genius stuff. Where is that now? It looked to me that Lebron let us run that for a while with Kyrie as the primary ball handler and then decided that he would take over with the simple PnR and create offense. Kyrie then followed his lead.

The teams has run the offense at times. You've seen that dribble handoff set they run on the right and left sides right? Indeed I saw Delly run it when he was in last night. So "scrapped" is a bit of a stretch.
Sure did see that. Though I am having trouble seeing how running a couple plays is a riposte to me saying that Lebron threw out the offense that I described above.

Next - LeBron & Ky are best at Iso. That is their best skill - penetration with ball, so is it stupid to play to your players strengths or to stick with your pre-determined plan (Hi ex-Coach D'Antoni)
Oh come on. You are baskebtall writer. Relying on players' strengths in iso does not mean that you cannot run an offense. In fact, what I really liked about our offense early in the season was that we would have constant movement and screening creating mismatches late in the shot clock that would lead to Lebron and Kyrie on a bigger defender enabling them to iso without any help under the basket. My favorite play that we ran was the weave into the PnR at the top of the key, giving Kyrie/Lebron a wide open iso to the basket.

Oh by the way, you said you didn't notice any changes? How did they play Rose on the PnR versus Teague? Maybe I'm an idiot, it's possible, but it looked to me like they let Teague try to beat them but wouldn't let him hit 3 shooters so he had to do it himself, whereas with Rose they actively tried to get him to give up the ball. But really why am I discussing defensive shifts with you if you don't believe they happen, can't see them, and follow the beat company line that LeBron is carrying the Cavs in spite of Blatt.
Oh by the way, would it surprise you that I said this already in a previous post? But go ahead and keep talking down to me.

Love how no LeBron can make success only him and failure mostly someone else. Great gift, wish I could use that at MY work.... or with my wife!
Once again, someone reads only what they want to read. It should be obvious through all of my posts that I would rather see Blatt's offense than Lebron's and that I am actually criticizing Lebron.
 
You seem to have a passive-aggressive attitude towards Blatt. You say on one hand that you think he is an excellent coach. then on the other hand you make an assertion that Blatt doesn't matter in the least, that basically anyone could do what he's doing with the same success
Swing and a miss. He is an excellent coach. Lebron + our defensive talent would have beaten Boston and Chicago with just about any coach. Do you disagree? That is not in any way a diss on Blatt or incompatible with saying he is a great coach. It is merely recognition that Lebron is a transcendent basketball player.

if you are looking for some kind of X's and O's breakdown then you're asking the wrong people. No-one outside the actual players and coaches know exactly what is drawn up, when players execute it, and when Lebron over-rides the designed plays.
I, optimistically, disagree.
 
Clearly nothing. Going to have to disagree with you here and I would appreciate not being swept up in some ongoing media feud. All of this has come from my own eyes except for the overriding plays at the end of the game, which admittedly came from Lebron's own mouth during a recent interview.

Well, we're going to have to disagree on how we interpret/parse & look into guys minds. What leBron's intents are get swallowed up in spin, so let's just leave it at your speculation on his attitude is no better than mine, imo.

I saw what Blatt ran in the summer league and beginning of the year. It was awesome. We were doing elaborate weaves, multiple layers of off ball screening, decoy plays, even some elevators - all stuff that Mike Miller said was genius stuff. Where is that now?

This is fact. However the team's ability to make the reads and use it was inconsistent in the beginning of the season. It wasn't like we looked like the Hawks or the Warriors running that stuff. Cavs had their moments, when they moved the ball, but that seemed to have little to do with what they ran and more to do with the personnel and their decisions. Which is of course Blatt's responsibiility. Bad Coach. Bad Coach (newspaper to snout)


It looked to me that Lebron let us run that for a while with Kyrie as the primary ball handler and then decided that he would take over with the simple PnR and create offense. Kyrie then followed his lead.

This is some unmoored speculation. What made you think Kyrie followed his lead? Do you have some specific examples? Where do you get "LeBron let us run that" - just the idea that we don't run it has to be LeBron not the coaching staff. Can you give me some support for thisf? Some reasons someone outside of your skull might also believe this? What are your thoughts aon Kyrie's ability to create off the bounce, becasue to my eyes, once he starts going downhill he's not going to pass it but try to finish. So perhaps the move off the ball had something to do with his skills. But like, that's just my opinion, man.

Sure did see that. Though I am having trouble seeing how running a couple plays is a riposte to me saying that Lebron threw out the offense that I described above.

You said the offense has been scrapped, not reduced. In my limited understanding of English, "scrapped" means thrown away, tossed and/or burned on a pyre. Not "much less frequent".


Oh come on. You are baskebtall writer. Relying on players' strengths in iso does not mean that you cannot run an offense. In fact, what I really liked about our offense early in the season was that we would have constant movement and screening creating mismatches late in the shot clock that would lead to Lebron and Kyrie on a bigger defender enabling them to iso without any help under the basket. My favorite play that we ran was the weave into the PnR at the top of the key, giving Kyrie/Lebron a wide open iso to the basket.

I'll accept this though i Think there is still casuse to have ball in the hands of your best playmakers the whole time.

Now a point to you -- is there anything to be said for the team's offensive performance since they downgraded the offense and started doing more drive & dish iso ball? Is success a metric here or satisfaction watching the ball move, because while it obviously stops a lot at times, it's hard to argue the offense wasn't effective and immediately assume the decision was LeBron's and not the coach. I mean you can make that leap, but as you said, it'd be nice if you proivded something specific to back that up outside of some beat's hot steaming take.


Oh by the way, would it surprise you that I said this already in a previous post? But go ahead and keep talking down to me.

Didn't see it but I didn't have the patience to read everyone of your posts like it was Proust. But hey, whatever, you asked what changes he made in playoffs, then just leave that on the table. What-EV.



Once again, someone reads only what they want to read. It should be obvious through all of my posts that I would rather see Blatt's offense than Lebron's and that I am actually criticizing Lebron.

Bad misinterpretation. That's a general comment that doesn't have to apply to you. It's something that seems to be true whether or not you profess membership -- by your line of argument you court their type.


oh and one thing - if you profess to know about Xs & Os how is LeBron "overriding" a play different from Ewing wanting the ball? Or Pippen wanting the ball? Or any of a million players whose examples came up in the subsequent days.

If you don't want to be swept up in the opinions of shitty writers you can't follow thier logic.
 
Well, we're going to have to disagree on how we interpret/parse & look into guys minds. What leBron's intents are get swallowed up in spin, so let's just leave it at your speculation on his attitude is no better than mine, imo.
Agreed.

This is fact. However the team's ability to make the reads and use it was inconsistent in the beginning of the season. It wasn't like we looked like the Hawks or the Warriors running that stuff. Cavs had their moments, when they moved the ball, but that seemed to have little to do with what they ran and more to do with the personnel and their decisions. Which is of course Blatt's responsibiility. Bad Coach. Bad Coach (newspaper to snout)
I find it difficult to believe that a coach would give up such a beautiful system, one that the NBA has clearly evolved into, so early on, especially with a group of new players that need time to learn it. That's a giant panic move. Especially with how receptive the players appeared to be to that system. I'll admit that I was informed by the media about the players' opinions of the offense in the preseason, so I'll defer to you on that.

This is some unmoored speculation. What made you think Kyrie followed his lead? Do you have some specific examples? Where do you get "LeBron let us run that" - just the idea that we don't run it has to be LeBron not the coaching staff. Can you give me some support for thisf? Some reasons someone outside of your skull might also believe this? What are your thoughts aon Kyrie's ability to create off the bounce, becasue to my eyes, once he starts going downhill he's not going to pass it but try to finish. So perhaps the move off the ball had something to do with his skills. But like, that's just my opinion, man.
It sure is speculation, but that's all I got sitting at home. :)

I think Kyrie followed his lead because after, let's call it "the scrappening," his eyes would light up when Lebron got to the bench because it turned into the Kyrie show. It was straight up PnR and then drive to the hoop. Luckily he is an amazing offensive talent, but there was no real offensive system being run. I was on this board saying his ability to create off the bounce is a gift and a curse in relation to Love's relative lack of role in the offense.

To me, the move off the ball was because Lebron decided to be point guard and run the PnR.


You said the offense has been scrapped, not reduced. In my limited understanding of English, "scrapped" means thrown away, tossed and/or burned on a pyre. Not "much less frequent".
Yeah, that's my fault. I often use the word that is about 25% too strong.

I'll accept this though i Think there is still casuse to have ball in the hands of your best playmakers the whole time.
I disagree about having the ball in their hands the whole time. I support the idea of everyone buying in and feeling like they have a role. Otherwise, people get resentful and just stand around the 3 point line with their hands on their knees. *ahem*

That does not mean that guys like TT and Moz should be handling the ball, and I still want the playmakers making the ultimate decisions. I just want something like what we ran at the beginning of the year to create mismatches for those playmakers.

Now a point to you -- is there anything to be said for the team's offensive performance since they downgraded the offense and started doing more drive & dish iso ball? Is success a metric here or satisfaction watching the ball move, because while it obviously stops a lot at times, it's hard to argue the offense wasn't effective and immediately assume the decision was LeBron's and not the coach. I mean you can make that leap, but as you said, it'd be nice if you proivded something specific to back that up outside of some beat's hot steaming take.
This is something I wrestle with, as indicated with my point above with Kyrie and Love. Lebron and Kyrie are so good that we will win most of our games running a simple drive & dish iso offense. What it really comes down to in my eyes is that we run the best possible system with an eye toward the ECF and finals. So yes, the simplified offense will run over lower seeded Eastern Conference teams, as it has. If that is something that Blatt instructed we do, then it obviously works. But I am only concerned with beating the best couple teams in the league. And with the way that GSW plays defense, it's going to take a herculean effort to win with such a simple offense. So I would rather us do something creative in an effort to get used to such a system. And I have to think that Blatt agrees, again speculating. Who was the last champion that ran what we are running?

oh and one thing - if you profess to know about Xs & Os how is LeBron "overriding" a play different from Ewing wanting the ball? Or Pippen wanting the ball? Or any of a million players whose examples came up in the subsequent days.
The overriding the play was in reference to Blatt drawing up a play, and then Lebron immediately telling him otherwise. Not sure examples like that were reported on. Obviously there are many cases where a coach calls a play and then the player breaks it off when seeing what defense is in front of him. I have no problem whatsoever with that.

If you don't want to be swept up in the opinions of shitty writers you can't follow thier logic.
Don't put your misreading and subsequent using me as a proxy to fight your media war on me.
 
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How in the world could me saying Lebron is our offense be interpreted as saying we have no other offensive players? That is some asperger-level literal interpretation.

How else is anyone supposed to interpret "Lebron is our offense"? If you don't want people to misinterpret what you mean, then try writing what you actually mean rather than using hyperbole.

Our lead sometimes grows when he's out because we have a roster of NBA players.

Right. Some of whom are very good offensive players.

That does not mean that our offense is not totally dependent on and goes through Lebron.

Actually, the fact that guys like Smith, Shump, Delly, JJ, Kyrie, etc. sometimes run a great offense and score lots of points means exactly that. We are not "totally dependent" on LBJ, and the offense does not always go through him. That wrongly diminishes the talent and contributions of a lot of other guys.

If you want to say there are times LBJ ignores the offensive gameplan and hijacks the offense, you won't get any argument from me. That is a definite problem. Unfortunately, Blatt is trapped in the same situation as any Coach with a superstar who is also a ballhandler/distributor. It's usually not as much of a problem with big men because they're dependent on someone else to pass them the ball. But guys like Jordan, Iverson, Kobe, and LBJ handle the ball in those offenses by design, and so always have the potential to become myopic dribble-queens. And when that happens, there's really not much a coach can do about it other than bench the guy, and a public benching could easily lead to much worse things for the team.
 
I don't comment too often regarding observations and conclusions fans make on this forum.
Quite frankly, I don't believe I have the capability to do a better analysis job than the fan next door.
I love the passion that some of the new members bring to this site, and I personally learn a lot from their knowledge and experience. I also admire reading educated and evidence-based arguments that other posters often bring to the table (yes, I am looking at you @priceFTW).
However, looking through this thread recently I can't avoid but thinking of this:

wrong.png

And as a CAVS fan who believes the TEAM comes first, I only ask you this:

6c5d6f1b9fbc6c1e458dba54d8cc828cea56185270db86a8c3f0deddf7a715a8.jpg


Personally, I should state that I couldn't care less about who gets credit and for what. If this team can win the Larry O'Brien for this franchise (and I trust Griffin to make a call on this Q) - then the rings everyone will receive will be of equal size. At that point I wouldn't give a rat's ass what the press says or how people will allocate the glory. Just get us the Championship.
 
How else is anyone supposed to interpret "Lebron is our offense"? If you don't want people to misinterpret what you mean, then try writing what you actually mean rather than using hyperbole.
I mean Lebron is our offense.

He has an insane usage of 35.8% along with an assist percentage of 49.1%. Let's take a look at the number of players who have done that in the playoffs - a big fat zero. Maybe PriceFTW has some better numbers.

So no, I am not using hyperbole. Maybe not read everything in an absurd literal way?

Actually, the fact that guys like Smith, Shump, Delly, JJ, Kyrie, etc. sometimes run a great offense and score lots of points means exactly that. We are not "totally dependent" on LBJ, and the offense does not always go through him. That wrongly diminishes the talent and contributions of a lot of other guys.
Again with the absurd literal reading. No, Lebron does not touch the ball on every play. Do you think anyone else here thinks that is what I meant?

If you want to say there are times LBJ ignores the offensive gameplan and hijacks the offense, you won't get any argument from me. That is a definite problem. Unfortunately, Blatt is trapped in the same situation as any Coach with a superstar who is also a ballhandler/distributor. It's usually not as much of a problem with big men because they're dependent on someone else to pass them the ball. But guys like Jordan, Iverson, Kobe, and LBJ handle the ball in those offenses by design, and so always have the potential to become myopic dribble-queens. And when that happens, there's really not much a coach can do about it other than bench the guy, and a public benching could easily lead to much worse things for the team.
Ok, we are actually into substance here. And I agree! And have defended Blatt on these points repeatedly!
 
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