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David Blatt is a former NBA coach

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Obviously they'd be screwed without Curry but we saw what happened to the Cavs without LeBron last year and it wasn't pretty. So I'm not sure what your point is...

My point is pretty clear I think. Their offense is predicated on the fact that most teams during the regular season won't game plan for their offense. They got lucky in the playoffs, they've been insanely lucky with respect to health, and their offense is a gimmick.

Any team dependent on a transcendent player is going to struggle if that player is out for whatever reason.

As I said upthread, take any of those players out and they fail, doesn't have to be Steph.

If you're implying that one of them will get injured that would probably make sense if this was any other team,

I'm not implying that.

I really don't think the best offense in the NBA qualifies as a gimmick, especially when it's been used to win a championship and has only gotten better since then.

Again, within the context of reality, their offense isn't what beat the Cavs. By way of injury, the Cavs beat themselves. That's very different that the Warriors fabled offense defeating the Cavaliers.

I am confident, the Cavs are the better team when healthy.

Stopping Steph is extremely difficult to do when they have 4 other guys on the floor who can all do some combination of shoot 3s, post up, and find the open man extremely effectively.

That's kind of my point. But it isn't even stopping him, it's just run and gun 3s and catch and shoot jumpers taken to an extreme extent - even according to Kerr and Gentry, this is D'Antoni's Suns/SSOL offense.

It's not a style of play that's used widely around the league, and that's why it's so effective during the regular season. I don't think this works against a healthy, defense-oriented opponent in a playoff series.

I hate watching them and I can't stand that baby-faced son of a bitch Curry, but I'm still highly skeptical the Cavs beat them 4 times out of 7.

Then you and I are at polar opposites on this.

I'm quite sure the Cavs would dominate the Warriors, and it wouldn't take 7 games to do it.
 
My point is pretty clear I think. Their offense is predicated on the fact that most teams during the regular season won't game plan for their offense. They got lucky in the playoffs, they've been insanely lucky with respect to health, and their offense is a gimmick.

They have definitely been lucky but unless there's a regression to the mean this doesn't help us very much.

As I said upthread, take any of those players out and they fail, doesn't have to be Steph.

I agree that removing any of those players would definitely bring them down a notch, but again that doesn't really mean anything to us if they are in fact healthy in the Finals.


Again, within the context of reality, their offense isn't what beat the Cavs. By way of injury, the Cavs beat themselves. That's very different that the Warriors fabled offense defeating the Cavaliers.

The injuries definitely contributed and I think the Cavs would have won if Kevin and/or Kyrie had been healthy. But I also think Steph, Barnes, and Green have improved enough to the point where the Cavs don't have a counter to their death lineup in crunch time. Steph is scoring 10 more points per game than last season and shooting an insane percentage from inside the paint. Green has emerged as a consistent triple double threat. Barnes' entire game has looked much sharper.

The expected lineup for the Cavs will be Kyrie/Delly or Shump/LeBron/Love/Tristan - this lineup should be able to score fairly well, but the Warriors will abuse Love on 1-4 pick and rolls with Barnes. And on the other end I think Green is a good enough post defender to contain Love and LeBron (as in slow them down, not stop them completely). Barnes is pretty solid here as well. And on top of that they'll always be able to help off Tristan.

The next choice is taking Tristan out and replacing him with Smith so that everyone on the court is a 3-point threat. But now the Cavs give up a huge size advantage on the perimeter with Klay and Barnes being far bigger than Delly/Shump and Barnes being bigger than Smith. This will impact not only the rebounding but also give the Warriors very easy post-up opportunities. Smith is also too inconsistent to be relied on as we saw in the Finals.

The only other notable choice is going big and playing Mozgov like we tried to do in Game 4, but that clearly didn't work.

I could be vastly underestimating the Cavs here but as of right now, it seems like the Cavs on their best day are as dominating as the Warriors on an average day. Obviously adding Kyrie, Shump, Mo, and Moz back will change things but I need to see an improvement in the offense over last year (at least stylistically, if not numbers-wise) and consistent top-5 level defense in order to be confident going into the Finals. Last year we only became elite at defense after Love went down and Delly took over the majority of the minutes, so I think the Cavs have to prove their defensive identity again.

That's kind of my point. But it isn't even stopping him, it's just run and gun 3s and catch and shoot jumpers taken to an extreme extent - even according to Kerr and Gentry, this is D'Antoni's Suns/SSOL offense.

It's not a style of play that's used widely around the league, and that's why it's so effective during the regular season. I don't think this works against a healthy, defense-oriented opponent in a playoff series.

It's not used widely around the league because nobody else in the league has the personnel for it. But teams are for sure trying to emulate it - look at the Pacers pushing George to the 4 or Davis/Cousins/Horford/etc. shooting 3s this season. Maybe you're right that it wouldn't work against the healthy Cavs but like I said earlier, I think they need to prove themselves on the defensive end again. Until they do that all we know is the Warriors won it all playing this style of offense, and nothing can change that.


Then you and I are at polar opposites on this.

I'm quite sure the Cavs would dominate the Warriors, and it wouldn't take 7 games to do it.

I sure hope so.
 
The only other notable choice is going big and playing Mozgov like we tried to do in Game 4, but that clearly didn't work.

I could be vastly underestimating the Cavs here but as of right now, it seems like the Cavs on their best day are as dominating as the Warriors on an average day.

The Cavs offense at the end of last season was better on a per possession basis than GS.

http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/advanced/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular Season&DateFrom=01/21/2015&DateTo=04/20/2015&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1

Further GSW is a team that has played together for several years to build their connection. The Cavs did this in 3 months on the fly.

You may not have thought of this -- but the Cavs basically went offenseless with the first team, almost entirely abandoning the offense for a rather vanilla (but obviously really effective) PnR set with LeBron and Kyrie. This is also why Love was consigned to a "Spacer". That was his role in a vanilla PnR set. Obviously they built wrinkles off of that, but this season they've got a whole offense with loads of plays with (primarily) Love in mind, since he has to have guys get him his shots in this offense (at least a lot more than in MN).

Also, it's not that Mozgov entirely didn't work. He scored like 27 points. If anyone else on the team could score besides LeBron he could've stayed in. But w/o the offense producing more they couldn't make it work. Even so, it seems that if more calls had gone the Cavs way inside it might've helped too. It's hard in a team sport like basketball to divorce one element from another. This isn't baseball. So going big with Mozgov might've worked if Shump or JR ever hit an outside shot. Cavs guards shot like 33 for the series (outside Ky). Might've been worse than that.

The whole small lineup thing also has one really difficult achilles tendon. You can get punished badly on the offensive boards. And trying to battle bigger guys on the offensive boards will wear you the frack down.

Unfortunately Tristan wore down under the work load. Nobody talks much about it but Thompson wore down badly in the 4th quarter. I suppose no one wanted to say something bad about someone trying so hard but Blatt wore him the frack down the way he played him, and I think was a little oblivious to TT's 4th Q decline, but it's there in the stats. Particularly take a look at Rebounding and defensive rating in the 4th.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2026...15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Split=ingame

Cavs need some depth up front to beat the Warriors, but Andy, T-Mo, Love and TT are all very good offensive reboundser.

I think there's a tendency to fall in love with whatever won last year like it wasn't at all like relief pitching. Remember when it was all about the Spurs passing offense? And then before that it was the iso PnR action.

Small Ball will continue just like those things well, but just like the Red Sox won the championship and then were last in the division the next year, there is a lot of stuff that happens in a basketball season that could shift things one way or another. Hell Toronto looked great the first half of last season. So did Atlanta. They sure didn't look that great the last couple months.

People fall in love with success because it's proven. But greatness fades and success only encourages others to find ways to beat it. They may enjoy playing with a number on their back right now, but it may become more of a grind as the season moves along.
 
The Cavs offense at the end of last season was better on a per possession basis than GS.

http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/advanced/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular Season&DateFrom=01/21/2015&DateTo=04/20/2015&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1

Further GSW is a team that has played together for several years to build their connection. The Cavs did this in 3 months on the fly.

You may not have thought of this -- but the Cavs basically went offenseless with the first team, almost entirely abandoning the offense for a rather vanilla (but obviously really effective) PnR set with LeBron and Kyrie. This is also why Love was consigned to a "Spacer". That was his role in a vanilla PnR set. Obviously they built wrinkles off of that, but this season they've got a whole offense with loads of plays with (primarily) Love in mind, since he has to have guys get him his shots in this offense (at least a lot more than in MN).

Right, I definitely agree that so far the offense looks a lot better this year in terms of ball movement and getting Love involved. But I'm just a bit worried about the offense shifting back towards to the Kyrie-LeBron pick and roll show from last year once Kyrie comes back. Either way they're going to have a very strong ORTG, but the ball movement style seems a lot harder to guard and less taxing on the players. The offense isn't really as concerning as the defense though, which although pretty good was never consistently elite when the Cavs were fully healthy (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Also, it's not that Mozgov entirely didn't work. He scored like 27 points. If anyone else on the team could score besides LeBron he could've stayed in. But w/o the offense producing more they couldn't make it work. Even so, it seems that if more calls had gone the Cavs way inside it might've helped too. It's hard in a team sport like basketball to divorce one element from another. This isn't baseball. So going big with Mozgov might've worked if Shump or JR ever hit an outside shot. Cavs guards shot like 33 for the series (outside Ky). Might've been worse than that.

Fair point, but again I'm not worried about the offense when all the Cavs are healthy - I'm much more worried about the defense. If I remember correctly Mozgov was put on Iguodala who ended up making four 3s in Game 4 after making only five in the last three games combined. Also keep in mind that one of the major limitations with Mozgov is that he isn't a great passer out of double teams. So you're right that we can't look at anything in a vacuum but the larger point here is that any adjustment that the Cavs make, there is some downside that the Warriors can and will exploit.

The whole small lineup thing also has one really difficult achilles tendon. You can get punished badly on the offensive boards. And trying to battle bigger guys on the offensive boards will wear you the frack down.

Unfortunately Tristan wore down under the work load. Nobody talks much about it but Thompson wore down badly in the 4th quarter. I suppose no one wanted to say something bad about someone trying so hard but Blatt wore him the frack down the way he played him, and I think was a little oblivious to TT's 4th Q decline, but it's there in the stats. Particularly take a look at Rebounding and defensive rating in the 4th.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2026...15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Split=ingame

Cavs need some depth up front to beat the Warriors, but Andy, T-Mo, Love and TT are all very good offensive reboundser.

Another fair point, and definitely something to watch for in the Christmas matchup.

I think there's a tendency to fall in love with whatever won last year like it wasn't at all like relief pitching. Remember when it was all about the Spurs passing offense? And then before that it was the iso PnR action.

Small Ball will continue just like those things well, but just like the Red Sox won the championship and then were last in the division the next year, there is a lot of stuff that happens in a basketball season that could shift things one way or another. Hell Toronto looked great the first half of last season. So did Atlanta. They sure didn't look that great the last couple months.

People fall in love with success because it's proven. But greatness fades and success only encourages others to find ways to beat it. They may enjoy playing with a number on their back right now, but it may become more of a grind as the season moves along.

Trends do come and go, but I think at least for now, the Warriors are going to continue rolling through teams. Until they get injured (they most likely won't), or they just get bored (their beat writers will keep making up crap to keep them pissed off), I don't know what's going to stop them.
 
Its interesting the more the warriors win the easier they are to beat eventually. Maintaining focus is really hard and sooner or later the marign of error will reduce. I also wonder if every game provides another clue of how to adjust defensively and the leagues defensive philosophy to them will evolve over the season. By the end of the season teams might be playing steph very differently than now.
Remember when atlanta beat us by using that trap midseason? it allowed us to prepare for it in the playoffs. I dont want the warriors getting those kinds of early tips from the regular season
 
They've had to face the adversity of people pointing out that they've faced no adversity. And boy, are they cranky about it.

Exactly, they are manufacturing adversity right now. Just now i was told by one of their fans how ridiculous it is that they just don't get any respect...

I mean, the Chronicle today:

Steve Kerr addressed his Warriors before Tuesday’s shootaround. He stressed the four qualities he wants the team to exude: joy, mindfulness, compassion and competition.
The players, ever respectful of their sidelined head coach, have quietly added a fifth: vengeance.


VENGEANCE? for what exactly?
 
^ The pain killers must be really strong in the Kerr medicine cabinet...can those 4 traits be any more porno for a basketball team? I could throw 4 darts at a board of hundreds of "qualities" and make more sense.
 
Exactly, they are manufacturing adversity right now. Just now i was told by one of their fans how ridiculous it is that they just don't get any respect...

I mean, the Chronicle today:

Steve Kerr addressed his Warriors before Tuesday’s shootaround. He stressed the four qualities he wants the team to exude: joy, mindfulness, compassion and competition.
The players, ever respectful of their sidelined head coach, have quietly added a fifth: vengeance.


VENGEANCE? for what exactly?

Hey, to be fair, the media that covers the NBA has only devoted, like, 88-89% of their coverage to the Warriors this year, rather than the appropriate 95% or more. For example, today I listened to a couple of hour-long ESPN podcasts and they deigned to devote four minutes to teams other than Golden State.
 
^ The pain killers must be really strong in the Kerr medicine cabinet...can those 4 traits be any more porno for a basketball team? I could throw 4 darts at a board of hundreds of "qualities" and make more sense.

Those things mean not a damn thing. How do you tell someone to exude mindfulness and how exactly does one go about executing said assignment?

Also, let me just note that the players ever so respectfully added an action, rather than a quality.
 
Exactly, they are manufacturing adversity right now. Just now i was told by one of their fans how ridiculous it is that they just don't get any respect...

I mean, the Chronicle today:

Steve Kerr addressed his Warriors before Tuesday’s shootaround. He stressed the four qualities he wants the team to exude: joy, mindfulness, compassion and competition.
The players, ever respectful of their sidelined head coach, have quietly added a fifth: vengeance.


VENGEANCE? for what exactly?

It makes a lot more sense when you remember that all of GSW's parents were brutally murdered in a dark alley after an opera performance. Go read the origin story...
 
See, that's where it helps to get the literature. All this time I thought is was payback for their former-mortal-enemy-turned-best-friend who had been killed by a tall Russian that can't act.
 
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