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Dion Waiters Traded

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Grade the Trade (Waiters + Kirk/Amundsen + 2nd rd pick for Smith, Shumpert, and 1st rd pick)

  • A+

    Votes: 18 7.1%

  • A

    Votes: 68 26.7%

  • B

    Votes: 106 41.6%

  • C

    Votes: 44 17.3%

  • D

    Votes: 10 3.9%

  • F

    Votes: 9 3.5%
  • Total voters
    255
  • Poll closed .
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You have to trade him. Trade Dion Miami pick and Memphis pick for Mozgov and Afflalo. Would the Nuggets do it?
 
Win now moves have hurt teams in the past. Be careful what you wish for. I'm sure we could still low and get a marginal talent for Dion.

The overflowing talent we have right now may not be as durable or long lived as you think. We gave away a lot of potential this offseason. Trade Dion's potential away for a "sure but lesser talent" and suddenly the team is not so young anymore and has less upside.
 
Sir John said:
1. Durant, Melo, Davis, and Ibaka all started their careers playing at a higher level than Dion. (Green is his own bizarre story that doesn't fit the Dion story, either, but in different ways, let's put him aside for a moment.)

2. They all continued to improve. Each was better in their second year than their first. By their third year in the league, they were far better than their first year.

2a. Clear and consistent improvement is different than "flashes." Dion has a good game here, or there. Or a good shot/drive/assist/defensive series, a bunch of one-offs that mostly exist in isolation.

3. With Durant, Melo, Davis, and Ibaka, you could see both their potential and then, most importantly, them converting that potential into daily NBA performance as early as their rookie years, then more so in their second year, and then even more so by their third. They quickly moved beyond the "flashes" stage.

4. Dion has done no such thing. He started horribly, truly one of the worst SG in the league his rookie year. Next year, he marginally improved, but not in any significant way. Then his third year, he collapsed back to his rookie levels --or maybe worse. At best, he still shows occasional "flashes."
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Uh, last year Dion was playing so well many members on this forum were advocating trading Kyrie and building the team around Dion. How soon we forget.

None of those players mentioned above played in three different systems for three different head coaches their first three years in the league. How much better would Dion be right now if he had? How much better will he be as he does?

Russell Westbrook http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01.html
Kawhi Leonard http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html
Chauncey Billups http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/billuch01.html
Rajon Rondo http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

Dion should probably be getting more consistent minutes right now. Yes, it can be frustrating. This is how good organizations develop players.

You can not like Dion. You can want to trade Dion. The point isn't that Dion is a clone of any of those guys. The point is that players need time to develop and most players don't start hitting their true potential until their third year or beyond.
 
guards are pretty quick to show who they are.

as was dion.

we see who he is.

lets make it easier: Tornicade (and others)..

You have to bet 5,000$ on Dion either becoming a step above role player in quality, consistently, or you bet against it. Where's your bet?
 
People who wanted to build around Dion were out of their minds. Last year he was just hitting his shitty shots for a stretch of games, nothing exceptional.
 
I wouldnt bet 5 thousand dollars that ill wake up in the morning Dave.
 
Damien O'Connel said:
....how? Saying "period" after your opinion doesn't make it a fact.
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I have more post on the subject than anyone else on this thread. Ive put out stats. have been supported by games he has actually started and you could see the improvement in the preseason as well. Dion wasnt really given an opportunity to start. to much pressure for people to even give it a fair shake.

Yet still issues and problems Waiters gets called out for are still very very prevalent even when he isnt on the court.
 
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Tornicade said:
I have more post on the subject than anyone else on this thread. Ive put out stats. have been supported by game he has actually started and you could see the improvement in the preseason as well. Dion wasnt really given an opportunity to start. to much pressure for people to even give it a fair shake.

Yet still issues and problems Waiters gets called out for are still very very prevalent even when he isnt on the court.
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Dion has been AWFUL this season. Can you argue against that? We're trying to win a championship over here. He gets paid millions of dollars. Get on the court and play the right way, or sit. That's the way things are; Dion has earned his current place on this team.

And the table you posted earlier in the thread showed that Dion has improved defensively. Great.

But his improvement from being total shit to just pretty shitty doesn't help your argument...
 
devils advocate:

dion shooting .467 in december and has started penetrating/dishing
 
Cavatt said:
Win now moves have hurt teams in the past. Be careful what you wish for. I'm sure we could still low and get a marginal talent for Dion.

The overflowing talent we have right now may not be as durable or long lived as you think. We gave away a lot of potential this offseason. Trade Dion's potential away for a "sure but lesser talent" and suddenly the team is not so young anymore and has less upside.
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upside doesn't mean a damn thing if there is a very small chance of fulfilling most of it. tons and tons of players have "upside" and never make it; at some point the cavs are going to need to stop clinging to that word and realize it's just not happening.

trading dion for a mid-late 20s player would have a minimal impact on the cavs true upside and age.
 
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