Dion Waiters Traded

[Jon]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

I'm looking at Hoopdata and it says NBA league average is 63%? Is this something we should be worried about?

Yeah, 51% is not a good average for finishing around the rim in the NBA (and I don't think averaging under 1 PPP P&R situations is very good either) ... but the NCAA is different with those zones, and I have no clue what's considered good in that context.

sidenote: According to Beal's video he converted 56.8% of his attempts around the rim.

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[wuck]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

I'm looking at Hoopdata and it says NBA league average is 63%? Is this something we should be worried about?

It could depend on whether Draft Express (draft video) uses the same procedure to determine what counts as "at the rim" as Hoopdata. 50% would mean you're at the very bottom of the NBA chart, near Mike Miller. Not sure about NCAA.

Hoopdata lists that the average NBA SG shot 63% at the rim and 37% from 3-9 feet. It seems like there is some gray area for how to decide what kind of misses get placed in which category.

 

[mds]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

This coupled with his body type and movements in general remind me of Raymond Felton actually.

Looking at his tendencies with the ball in his hands, his seeming disinterest in doing anything but standing out on the perimeter and occasionally waving his arms for the ball when it's not in his hands, his inconsistent outside shooting, his role at 'Cuse, and his height, I'm a little worried that we just picked our instant offense back-up PG / combo guard off-the-bench with the 4th overall pick. I'd be more worried if it weren't so ridiculously early, but I'm just having trouble seeing the fit with Kyrie, given that their games seem pretty similar (just with Kyrie being better at everything currently and as perhaps would be expected).

I hope our last 2 4th overall picks didn't get us our first guard and first forward off the bench.

Well, if he ended up being the James Harden/Jason Terry/Manu Ginobili/Jamal Crawford type of 6th man it wouldn't be the end of the world. It is possible the Cavs felt they were going a bit BPA here figuring if he didn't fit as the starting SG that'd he'd be a top flight 6th man on a contending team.

 

[Jon]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

Or Joe Dumars .vs. Vinny Johnson if you prefer.

Of course there was a time we were debating if Dan Gibson could be our BJ Armstrong ... you just don't know until these guys have had a fair chance to show what they can do.

 

[Snarly]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

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Our new big three and maybe one day big four? Oh man good stuff here.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

Well, if he ended up being the James Harden/Jason Terry/Manu Ginobili/Jamal Crawford type of 6th man it wouldn't be the end of the world. It is possible the Cavs felt they were going a bit BPA here figuring if he didn't fit as the starting SG that'd he'd be a top flight 6th man on a contending team.

Isn't that "ain't so bad" spot supposedly filled by TT already?

In any case, Waiters does have a better overall FG% than did Beal -- 47.6% to 44.5%, and he was 3% better on 3-pointers as well. Couldn't get the shot selection stats page working at Draft Express, but unless Waiters took a lot more at the rim shots than did Beal, those numbers suggest that Waiters is actually a better shooter than Beal overall.

 

[mds]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

Isn't that "ain't so bad" spot supposedly filled by TT already?

In any case, Waiters does have a better overall FG% than did Beal -- 47.6% to 44.5%, and he was 3% better on 3-pointers as well. Couldn't get the shot selection stats page working at Draft Express, but unless Waiters took a lot more at the rim shots than did Beal, those numbers suggest that Waiters is actually a better shooter than Beal overall.

No spot is filled related to draft order. You take your shots and move with whoever ends up being the best. These are prospect players and not all of them live up to the hype and some of them exceed it. Only time will tell.

Hard to extrapolate too much on Waiters vs Beal as shooters, but just about any scout would say Beal is more of a pure shooter and Waiters has somewhat suspect form. That said, Ray Allen is the best shooter ever and he kicks his elbow out a bit, so form isn't everything.

 

[Ghost Writer]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

No spot is filled related to draft order. You take your shots and move with whoever ends up being the best. These are prospect players and not all of them live up to the hype and some of them exceed it. Only time will tell.

Hard to extrapolate too much on Waiters vs Beal as shooters, but just about any scout would say Beal is more of a pure shooter and Waiters has somewhat suspect form. That said, Ray Allen is the best shooter ever and he kicks his elbow out a bit, so form isn't everything.

Absolutely correct, I would much rather have a player whom is comfortable shooting with not exactly the best form and shoot with confidence than a player who's mechanic's look good yet they are inconsistent when shooting, the latter player is focusing on form and not the shot.

 

[MGMT]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

I believe as the summer ages his physical condition will improve; then he won't appear to be so out of shape. Further as a result of the aforementioned he will look better on the floor. While this indeed is optimistic speculation it is far from unreasonable. I didn't expect him to light up summer league. I just wanted to see glimpses and he showed the flashes of his potential.

I'm content with where he is at the moment.

 

[EdMonix11]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

Absolutely correct, I would much rather have a player whom is comfortable shooting with not exactly the best form and shoot with confidence than a player who's mechanic's look good yet they are inconsistent when shooting, the latter player is focusing on form and not the shot.

To be honest, i don't really worry at all about Waiters because he's a Byron Scott hand picked guy. We can talk about his shot, his weight, all of which Waiters admitted needed work, but if there's one thing that Byron Scott has ingrained in his brain, it's guard play. The guy just knows talented guards and how to maximize their abilities. He's done it with Richard Jefferson, JR Smith, Marcus Thornton, Chris Paul, etc. That alone is a reason for optimism in Dion Waiters. He's going to be good regardless, i think the only question, in my opinion, is if he's a star.

 

[RikSmits]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

To be honest, i don't really worry at all about Waiters because he's a Byron Scott hand picked guy. We can talk about his shot, his weight, all of which Waiters admitted needed work, but if there's one thing that Byron Scott has ingrained in his brain, it's guard play. The guy just knows talented guards and how to maximize their abilities. He's done it with Richard Jefferson, JR Smith, Marcus Thornton, Chris Paul, etc. That alone is a reason for optimism in Dion Waiters. He's going to be good regardless, i think the only question, in my opinion, is if he's a star.

What makes people think that Scott is a great scout?
Just because he was a good player doesn't make him a good talent evaluator. Just look at guys like Jordan and Wayne Embry etc. Not every good ex=player is Jerry West.

And by the way, Scott coached Thornton for a total of 9 games while JR Smith's numbers in his first two years with the Jazz are not very inspiring. I just hope JR wasn't handpicked by Scott. :chuckles:

 

[mAo_mAo]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

What makes people think that Scott is a great scout?
Just because he was a good player doesn't make him a good talent evaluator. Just look at guys like Jordan and Wayne Embry etc. Not every good ex=player is Jerry West.

And by the way, Scott coached Thornton for a total of 9 games while JR Smith's numbers in his first two years with the Jazz are not very inspiring. I just hope JR wasn't handpicked by Scott. :chuckles:

If Scott picked them then he is a good evaluator. Those are some talented scorers there. JR's problem was his immaturity and not his talent.

 

[EdMonix11]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

What makes people think that Scott is a great scout?
Just because he was a good player doesn't make him a good talent evaluator. Just look at guys like Jordan and Wayne Embry etc. Not every good ex=player is Jerry West.

And by the way, Scott coached Thornton for a total of 9 games while JR Smith's numbers in his first two years with the Jazz are not very inspiring. I just hope JR wasn't handpicked by Scott. :chuckles:

Did i not list some examples? I'll go further, Kyrie Irving and now Dion Waiters.......

You can say Thornton was coached by Scott for 9 games all you want but he was handpicked by Scott and has gone on to be a 20+ point scorer. If you don't think JR Smith would be an elite scorer if his head was on straight, well, you might need your head checked.

 

[RikSmits]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

Did i not list some examples? I'll go further, Kyrie Irving and now Dion Waiters.......

You can say Thornton was coached by Scott for 9 games all you want but he was handpicked by Scott and has gone on to be a 20+ point scorer. If you don't think JR Smith would be an elite scorer if his head was on straight, well, you might need your head checked.

So Scott handpicked all these players?
As for Kyrie, he was the consensus #1 and the jury is still out on Waiters.
Thornton is a no defense gunner who shoots at a very inefficient rate. The same applies to Smith.
And Smith does not have his head on straight, so I fail to see your argument, unless it was just mentioned for the personal jab. Thanks.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

So Byron Scott is the GM? lol