ESPN Player ranking - The Cavs players

[Pioneer10]

Ok, I couldn't read all the pages of this argument, but Chris, I didn't see you say that Kyrie has yet to prove that he is better than a replacement level player did I?

That's harsh but considering how many good starting PGs there are in the league: paul, Westbrook, wall, lillard, conley, rondo, teague, conley, lowry, walker, Lawson, etc Kyrie was below replacement level starting caliber NBA PG level last year.

He's got the talent to be the best player of that group but his defense had to get a lot better

 

[Nathan S]

You guys do realize that there's a big difference between "replacement level" and "league average" right? I'm not saying Kyrie is either, obviously, just pointing out that those words do not mean the same thing

 

[mhi]

I think Waiters' ranking is pretty fair.

About Irving, we can all agree that he produced below his talent level last year; so let's wait and see where ESPN ranks him considering that fact.

 

[cavsfever]

You guys do realize that there's a big difference between "replacement level" and "league average" right? I'm not saying Kyrie is either, obviously, just pointing out that those words do not mean the same thing

Right. I don't think it's crazy to claim that Kyrie is somewhere around average or at least not that much above average among starting NBA point guards (well above average in some areas but well below in defense). But to say he is replacement level really is crazy.

 

[Lee]

His ranking is about what he deserves, lets stop overrating our players.

Dion might have been 50th in the league in scoring, but he was 164th in the league in per.

Efficiency matters. He could jump as much as 40 places this year even if his points go down a bit because I expect him to be a much more efficient player and give a ton more effort on defense,

 

[Cavatt]

Talent wise Kyrie could be top 10, but performance wise is say he deserves this ranking now. Hopefully he is on a new tip now.

 

[MoFlo]

His ranking is about what he deserves, lets stop overrating our players.

Dion might have been 50th in the league in scoring, but he was 164th in the league in per.

Efficiency matters. He could jump as much as 40 places this year even if his points go down a bit because I expect him to be a much more efficient player and give a ton more effort on defense,

I don't think PER is a good indicator either, however, as it has to do with who you're on the floor with just as much as individual stats.

Not saying 101st isn't fair for Dion, just pointing out that PER isn't exactly what we should be going by.

 

[No Offense]

Disagree. Rose has actual NBA accomplishments on his resume. I think you have to wait until Rose proves he CAN'T play at that level anymore before you start accepting that he can't.

Gilbert Arenas had a much stronger resume than Kyrie Irving did going into the 2011-2012 season.

 

[Lee]

I don't think PER is a good indicator either, however, as it has to do with who you're on the floor with just as much as individual stats.

Not saying 101st isn't fair for Dion, just pointing out that PER isn't exactly what we should be going by.

I am not a huge fan of per, but its an efficiency stat and I was being lazy to look up win shares or something of that nature.

It proves my point though well enough.

 

[Ruggeder]

Lebron 1 and Love 5 is positive. I would rather have Love then Westbrook or Paul, personally, but these lists are all arguable anyway. Kyrie at 31 is ridiculous, and although he isn't top ten, especially with no defense, he isn't 31st.

 

[Bandwagoner305]

Yeah, Kyrie has the talent and potential to be a top 10 player, but it doesn't mean he is one. He has a long way to go before he gets into that conversation. He now has the guidance to become a better well-rounded player, we'll just have to see if he won't let his ego get in the way.

 

[MoFlo]

I don't think anyone has said that Kyrie is a Top 10 player, though, just that there's definitely not 30 players in the NBA better than him right now..

 

[Chris]

Wine and Gold liked my post, so you are wrong and I am right.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I am not a huge fan of per, but its an efficiency stat and I was being lazy to look up win shares or something of that nature.

It proves my point though well enough.

The rankings are supposed to be where they'll end up this year, though, not where they were last year. Does anyone really believe Dion won't be one of the top 100 players in the league this year? I sure think he will be. He'll feast off of open threes, cuts to the basket, and the expert passing of literally everyone else in the starting five.

His drive and kick game will also be much more deadly this year seeing as we brought in actual three point shooters, and he won't be stuck deciding whether or not to attempt a tough shot at the rim or kick it out to Gee or Clark.

 

[KI4MVP]

Aren't these supposed to be projected rankings for the coming season? If so, they are way underestimating the season Kyrie is about to have.