Gee Wiz...what's Alonzo's ceiling???

[Triumph36]

Okay first of all I'm not sidestepping. I wasn't name dropping. Again, he asked a question and I answered.

Second, I never said I agreed with his criticism of Gee for last game, nor did I say a single game - good or bad - should have any influence on a players argument for the award.

Third, the award isn't about "expectations" at all. Last I checked, it isn't called "The Player Who Exceeded Expectations the Most" award. It's the Most Improved Player award. As in, which player improved the most since last season. Exactly where a player was picked is irrelevant. Lin isn't in the discussion because he was undrafted and played in the d-league; he's in the discussion because he was a scrub last year and has improved drastically across the board.

Hawes is in the discussion because of his significantly improved shooting percentages (FG% and FT% by 8%,TS% and eFG% both by 7%) while taking the same amount of shots, improved his per/36 rebounds by 2, assists by 1, and improvement on defense which contribute tothe 76ers jump almost 10 spots in defensive efficiency.

Meanwhile, Gee has taken on a slightly bigger role for his team and....his shooting numbers went down across the board. Rebounding went unchanged and there was a slight uptick in assists, steals, and turnovers and improved defense (yet his team is still among the worst in the league).

In the end, the only reason people are suggesting Gee is in the running is because he plays for the Cavs. Plain and simple. Had he played for another middle of the pack team the media and overall basketball world doesn't really care for, nobody here would be throwing his name into the ring. Hell, if he didn't play for the Cavs and still had the same quality of "improvement" from last season to this one I'd bet most here wouldn't even know he is in the league.

 

[wuck]

In the end, the only reason people are suggesting Gee is in the running is because he plays for the Cavs. Plain and simple. Had he played for another middle of the pack team the media and overall basketball world doesn't really care for, nobody here would be throwing his name into the ring. Hell, if he didn't play for the Cavs and still had the same quality of "improvement" from last season to this one I'd bet most here wouldn't even know he is in the league.

I think you're underestimating his improvement on the defensive end but I hope that every other GM in the league shares your impression about his level of improvement and that allows the Cavs to resign him to a reasonable contract.

(p.s. you have a shift key???? :chuckles

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

Okay first of all I'm not sidestepping. I wasn't name dropping. Again, he asked a question and I answered.

Second, I never said I agreed with his criticism of Gee for last game, nor did I say a single game - good or bad - should have any influence on a players argument for the award.

Third, the award isn't about "expectations" at all. Last I checked, it isn't called "The Player Who Exceeded Expectations the Most" award. It's the Most Improved Player award. As in, which player improved the most since last season. Exactly where a player was picked is irrelevant. Lin isn't in the discussion because he was undrafted and played in the d-league; he's in the discussion because he was a scrub last year and has improved drastically across the board.

Hawes is in the discussion because of his significantly improved shooting percentages (FG% and FT% by 8%,TS% and eFG% both by 7%) while taking the same amount of shots, improved his per/36 rebounds by 2, assists by 1, and improvement on defense which contribute tothe 76ers jump almost 10 spots in defensive efficiency.

Meanwhile, Gee has taken on a slightly bigger role for his team and....his shooting numbers went down across the board. Rebounding went unchanged and there was a slight uptick in assists, steals, and turnovers and improved defense (yet his team is still among the worst in the league).

In the end, the only reason people are suggesting Gee is in the running is because he plays for the Cavs. Plain and simple. Had he played for another middle of the pack team the media and overall basketball world doesn't really care for, nobody here would be throwing his name into the ring. Hell, if he didn't play for the Cavs and still had the same quality of "improvement" from last season to this one I'd bet most here wouldn't even know he is in the league.

Hawes has played in 19 flippin games this season! In any season, let alone one as condensed as this one, that alone would be grounds to eliminate him. You can't play in half or less of your teams games and be called MIP in the NBA! That's absurd. Gee has had 20 game stretches of much greater improved numbers over last year than Hawes has. Sorry, but he is probably the single least deserving guy on that whole list. You're list is completely flawed. GM's around the NBA are not so naive to actually not recognize this kid's role. Do you honestly think our GM and HC would go to lengths as they have to commend the guy in a contract year if it wasn't such an obvious fact? And expectations certainly do matter.
The fact Lin went from DLeaguer to spear heading the Knicks playoff run in spite of D'Antoni certainly does play a factor...an enormous factor. Not taking into account how expectations facvtor is missing part of the equation. You don't give MIP award to a top 10 pick when his numbers are still marginal, just because his numbers the previous season had him close to a bust. That makes zero sense.
But, we'll see how it plays out in the offseason. It will be the perfect barometer of what other GM's think when he gets tendered an offer. It will then prove what our FO thinks when they match said offer.

 

[MoneyMP3]

If you cant tell Gee has improved then you obviously havent watched any games this season.

 

[czvo]

This seems to be the most pointless argument ever. Who cares if Alonzo is in the discussion for MIP (I don't think he is, but if this were a top-25 poll, I think he'd be in the "others receiving votes" category)?

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

This seems to be the most pointless argument ever. Who cares if Alonzo is in the discussion for MIP (I don't think he is, but if this were a top-25 poll, I think he'd be in the "others receiving votes" category)?

You don't see the value of him being recognized in the MIP discussion? It's a contract year for the guy. If he is recognized league wide as a guy who went from undrafted to MIP candidate, still before his prime, all the while being described by his current GM as having not yet approached his cieling, it will definitely affect his worth as a RFA. I think it is very relevant to a franchise that has already identified him as a core of the future of the team.
I'm not sure what is so difficult for fans to recognize this kid's worth and potential and how it all parlays into a future contract. How is any of that even approaching pointless? So many fans on here want to talk about supposed tanking, fixed lotteries, ignorant draft projections, and mock drafts that are bound to change 50 times over before the, ya know, actual real draft. Yet, when the reality of one of our aforementioned core pieces is up for a new contract, his inclusion in the MIP discussion is mentioned it is somehow irrelevant. Mind blowing. I guess dealing in what ifs and fantasy land draft rigging conspiracies is hot. I'll stick to the realities of the NBA, Cavs in particular, world.

**The bulk of this was not directed at you in particular, btw. Just the relevancy part. I haven't payed close enough attention to your personal opinions to know how you feel on conspiracy theories and such. Just was a general rant to some of the garbage lately, in general.

 

[SOA]

. . . .if this were a top-25 poll, I think he'd be in the "others receiving votes" category)?

I think that is the point of the discussion .

I think there are some here who want to label anyone a homer simply because we recognize the tremendous strides of one of our own players

I think Gee's development is one of the bigger accomplishments of this years team outside of Kyrie of course

I see his rise similar to that of Bobby Phills for those old enough to remember

I'd rather people enjoy and celebrate his accomplishments rather than come here and troll when he has a off night

 

[czvo]

You don't see the value of him being recognized in the MIP discussion? It's a contract year for the guy. If he is recognized league wide as a guy who went from undrafted to MIP candidate, still before his prime, all the while being described by his current GM as having not yet approached his cieling, it will definitely affect his worth as a RFA. I think it is very relevant to a franchise that has already identified him as a core of the future of the team.
I'm not sure what is so difficult for fans to recognize this kid's worth and potential and how it all parlays into a future contract. How is any of that even approaching pointless? So many fans on here want to talk about supposed tanking, fixed lotteries, ignorant draft projections, and mock drafts that are bound to change 50 times over before the, ya know, actual real draft. Yet, when the reality of one of our aforementioned core pieces is up for a new contract, his inclusion in the MIP discussion is mentioned it is somehow irrelevant. Mind blowing. I guess dealing in what ifs and fantasy land draft rigging conspiracies is hot. I'll stick to the realities of the NBA, Cavs in particular, world.

**The bulk of this was not directed at you in particular, btw. Just the relevancy part. I haven't payed close enough attention to your personal opinions to know how you feel on conspiracy theories and such. Just was a general rant to some of the garbage lately, in general.

I really don't see his being mentioned as an MIP candidate driving him out of Cleveland's price range, but if it does... let someone else overpay for him.

Its great that he has improved so much, but MIP or not, the Cavs are going to pay him what they feel he is worth. If another team values him higher, then they'll pay him more. The award is, essentially, arbitrary.

And the argument is pointless because HE IS a core piece. What do we care what the outside world thinks? We know how good he's gotten, and how well he's played this season.

 

[CleveRocks]

If we are talking about the most improved player, relative to Gee, would we not have to include Ramon? He has moved to a bigger stage in LA .if he continues to put up the numbers, I think you have to consider him in the mix. Whether he can sustain it is yet to be seen, but just last season, a majority of this board thought he was the best Tank Driver in the NBA.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Alonzo is a hustler, he plays physical, and his jump shot has improved so much from last season.

He also is big on the boards, has been playing well in the fourth quarter and genuinely seems like a guy we should keep around for the long haul.

He needs to utilize the jump stop more while in traffic. He often as others have alluded to get a bit out of control. One time Alonzo took the ball to the hoop, was met by a secondary defender, put the ball between his legs once to regain composure and finished it up by taking a pro hop left into the lane past the defense. If he could eliminate the rhino charge he would do himself a world of good.

He is just the kind of guy that you want in the locker room to spur competition between other players on the team


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jon]

Over/under ... Alonzo Gee: 2 votes for MIP

I'm afraid Alonzo's dunks, steals, and D are not enough to get it done on a team nobody is watching. As Triumph pointed out, a number of his key stats have actually gone down.

I'm going under. I think he may get 1.

 

[Kouki]

Under. He may get a few honorable mentions, but when it comes down to it, he doesn't really deserve any first place votes. Not to say he isn't improved.

Along the same note, am I the only one who finds it annoying when writers have MVP races (or MIP, ROY, etc races) with like 15 players on the list? What's the point of having more than, say, four or five? I can't remember the last time there were more than a handful of legit candidates for an award.

 

[Lee]

I think that is the point of the discussion .

I think there are some here who want to label anyone a homer simply because we recognize the tremendous strides of one of our own players

I think Gee's development is one of the bigger accomplishments of this years team outside of Kyrie of course

I see his rise similar to that of Bobby Phills for those old enough to remember

I'd rather people enjoy and celebrate his accomplishments rather than come here and troll when he has a off night

I like the Bobby Phills comparison. At best he becomes a Bobby Phills level player. Gee is a better rebounder, but he isnt nearly as good of a long range shooter or ball handler. Of course fills was a sg, and gee is a sf.

I think gee looks so good to allot of the fans because how poor our wings really are right now. All we have to compare him against is Boobie, AP and Casspi.

Do I think he will be a good guy to bring off the bench? Yes. Do I think he ever sniffs all star weekend outside of a dunk contest? No. At best, if he is the worst of our starting 5 we are ok. Sadly, right now he seems to be the 2nd best. (although tristan is playing out of position, and Jamison scores, just not efficiently)

 

[amil99]

Dude has been getting torched bad lately smh

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

Dude has been getting torched bad lately smh

Yea, I was at the game. Prince handed him his ass all night. Wasn't pretty.