Jared from Subway's house is currently being raided by the FBI...

[gourimoko]

I think @gourimoko is definitely right that there is a really tough gray area with that stat rape laws, particularly with people who meet in high school and keep dating while one party is in college. I wouldn't consider that party a rapist.

I also agree that it's pretty tricky when girls go to clubs looking a lot older than they are, and guys being put in a nasty position because of it.

It's so tricky that these laws need not exist.

It is a farce to think that someone can make the decision to join the military at 17 but can't get their dick wet.

We are talking about consensual sex; and there are folks saying that two people, 16 and 18, cannot consent to have sex. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

 

[Soda]

This is ridiculous.

How? You realize a lot of "minors" that go around to clubs/bars, often get in there with fake ID's, right? You do understand that? You think people are just letting them in, given they can lose their liquor license, or be prosecuted themselves?

So, technically, if A person, was not only told they're of legal age, but even sees their identification saying they are, what more can they do? Do they need to go hunting for a birth certificate?

That's just ridiculous. I don't think anyone that has sex with a minor, seriously unknowing, should be punished in any way. How are they not the victim, technically speaking?

Just become someone is a minor, doesn't mean they're bulletproof of wrong doing. And going around misrepresenting yourself, then claiming "victim" is bullshit to me.

I donno man.. I don't think that unknowingly having done it is as reprehensible, but as the adult, you should be the more responsible one with the situation. I mean, you're chastising people who society has deemed "children" for not being responsible about their age in the interest of defending adults being flippant.

 

[godfather]

I donno man.. I don't think that unknowingly having done it is as reprehensible, but as the adult, you should be the more responsible one with the situation.

I don't disagree, common sense is needed. I am saying, it's not that simple. You can easily, truly unknowingly, have sex with a minor, without ever realizing you did.

It's like saying people who fall victim to a Ponzi scheme deserve it, and should just face the consequences.

Because technically, it is a scam, is it not?

Unless, the real message is just be celibate.

I am sorry, a girl that's 16, 17, going around in adult clubs, misrepresenting herself to be of legal age, sleeping with adults, is not my idea of a victim, by any means.

What Jared did? Clearly wrong, don't misunderstand that. He was willingly, and knowingly targeting minors. He's a creep.

But a guy that truly doesn't realize he's slept with a minor, that lied to him, totally different.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

@gourimoko
Imo, a 16 year old girl is in no way old enough to make their own decisions regarding sex with an adult person.

Okay, what age do you think is old enough? I mean, we let them drive and work full time at 16. You can even join the military with your parents permission at 17 And for a lot of those girls, the parents have even bought them birth control. And how about 16 year old girl and 18/year old guy, who may actually be barely a year apart?

But what disturbs me the most is the example you used in one of your arguments (guy meets girl at a club, they fuck, then it turns out she's an underaged girl.)
I'm sorry if I misunderstand you, but as a guy who's 18+ years old, it's your duty to know if there's even a slight chance that your fu*king a child.

How are you supposed to do that? She's in a club with age 18 minimum, so if you ask for her ID, she's going to show you the same one she used to get in.

If, in your hypothetical case, the police indeed finds out, you simply have to live with the consequences and that includes putting you on a list that says you're a pedophile, rapist, and predator.

Let's say you do check her ID, and sure enough, it says she's 19. Should the dude still go to jail as a rapist/predator?

Look I think significantly older guys who go after borderline women are asking for trouble. But I have a lot of sympathy for a
guy in his late teens or early 20's, who ends up with an 16-17 year old who looks older, lies about her age, and has a fake ID.

 

[godfather]

Okay, what age do you think is old enough? I mean, we let them drive and work full time at 16. You can even join the militry with your parents permission. And for a lot of those girls, the parents have even bought them birth control. And how about 16 year old girl and 18/year old guy, who may actually be barely a year apart?



How are you supposed to do that? She's in a club with age 18 minimum, so if you ask for her ID, she's going to show you the same one she used to get in.



Let's say you do check her ID, and sure enough, it says she's 19. Should the dude still go to jail as a rapist/predator?

Look I think significantly older guys who go after borderline women are asking for trouble. But I have a lot of sympathy for a
guy in his late teens or early 20's, who ends up with an 16-17 year old who looks older, lies about her age, and has a fake ID.

Bingo! if they're in adult clubs, they're in there for a reason! Lol, why the hell would any adult then question their age. Obviously they got in there with a fake I.D, or the bouncer also assumed their legal age.

Not to mention, most people are under alcohol, so it's not like they're going to put on their entire thinking caps.

But a young man, that truly believes some girl that's 16-17, is within his own age, sleeps with them, to me is the TRUE victim.

It's just absurd to want to prosecute and ruin them, over something they were tricked by.

I don't think anyone that unknowingly sleeps with a minor should be prosecuted. It's just ridiculous to do that.

 

[gourimoko]

I donno man.. I don't think that unknowingly having done it is as reprehensible, but as the adult, you should be the more responsible one with the situation. I mean, you're chastising people who society has deemed "children" for not being responsible about their age in the interest of defending adults being flippant.

I think what we're really talking about isn't rape. It's our own personal ideas of how old a girl has to be to have sex. (because we ain't talking about guys, let's recognize the double standard)

People should just acknowledge that and stop hiding behind rape laws.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Can anyone tell me what the biological purpose of puberty is?

 

[spydy13]

It's so tricky that these laws need not exist.

It is a farce to think that someone can make the decision to join the military at 17 but can't get their dick wet.

We are talking about consensual sex; and there are folks saying that two people, 16 and 18, cannot consent to have sex. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

Don't a lot of states have the romeo and juliet laws that allow those kinds of relationships to exist legally as long as the parties are within 2-3 years of each other?

The intent of those laws are to protect against the Jared Fogle types coming in as a creepy old guy trying to bang young girls. You're right though that I think it ends up sweeping up more guys who unknowingly have sex with younger girl at a club.

Is there any repercussions for the girl being under aged at the club in those situations? I'm sure it's nowhere near as bad as being listed as a sex offender, but do they get anything?

 

[Tornicade]

@gourimoko

First of all, I respect your opinion on this. But I have to disagree with some of your points.
Imo, a 16 year old girl is in no way old enough to make their own decisions regarding sex with an adult person.

Is this implying the 16 year old can make their own decisions regarding having sex with someone else that you wouldnt classify as an adult person.

These 16 year olds do make these decisions and often under false pretenses.
This is why if there is a penalty for an adult person there should also be a penalty for a non adult person who makes this decision despite your assesment that they are not able to.

what if this 16 year old has sex with a 12 year old. If theya rent old enough to make that decision. are you saying they shouldnt be culpable.

Minor laws are in place to allow the courts to adjust sentencing and penalties for the youth to make mistakes and possibly rehabilitate by not serving the same penalty an adult would. they are not there to excuse bad decisions by children but to administer a punishment that allows the chid to learn and recover from their mistake when appropriate.

This is typically crime and situational specific which it should be.

How Sex crimes along with the public shaming component would not be administered situational as opposed to unilaterally is beyond me

 

[godfather]

These laws are bogus. I was 20, going on to 21 at the time, and developed serious feelings for a girl that was 17 at the time. I felt dirty about it given how society redeems these things, and I was basically just 3 and a half years older than her, I mean, come on.

So. I couldn't pursue in fear of being prosecuted. She was 17 years old, and had her shit together better than most people at age 25. She was definitely, definitely more of an adult than your average 17. Not everyone is the same, at the exact same age, that needs to be pointed out.

I wasn't looking to just bang her like some horny young man either. I actually liked her.

I am in favor of a 10 year gap rule, with 16 being the legal age. A 20 year old that bangs a 15 year old, shouldn't be prosecuted.

Any girl under 14 though, engaged in sex with someone 21 or older, is different though. I think you should ballpark sexual acts. They should be define by the age of the two people, and the difference of each age gap.

It's just too gray of an area, to make it a simple law for everyone.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I mean, did no one here who was a senior in high school plow through some freshmen and sophomores? I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. I did it all the time in high school. Now, if I had continued to bang high school freshmen once I went to college, that, to me, would be weird. High school juniors and seniors were fair game though when I went home.

Either way, you're an 18 or 19 year old banging technically underage girls, but I sure as hell wouldn't call it rape.

 

[CavsHomer]

But why? Simply saying this doesn't really make a point. I want to know why you think this and if you think this opinion is reflected in reality. When you were 16, if someone who was 18 had sex with you, do you think that person would be raping you?

Ok let me say this: By age 16, you're still in a development phase as a child. Often, you aren't always aware of all of your feelings, thoughts, emotions etc. A 16 year old girl is technically still a child.
So you can't tell me that these young teenagers can always make informed decisions about sex, both physically and emotionally.

And of course I wouldn't feel raped, especially if I agreed to have sex with an adult person. But that's not the point. The point is, as an adult person, you HAVE to know the risks. And if the law says that you're considered a rapist after a sexual interaction with a 16 year old, then of course you have to live with the consequences.

You expect guys to go out and card girls -- in a club?

See, that's your most controversial point right here. I understand that (almost) no guy will do this in a club, I really do. But let me ask you this: If, in a hypothetical case, you sleep with someone who looks like she's 18+ years old but later on, she tells you she's only 14 years old, would you still use the "You expect guys to go out and card girls -- in a club?" - excuse for your argumentation?

If you use this as justification for having sex with a 16 year old, then you could also use it for 14 year olds (or even younger)...

I mean, I know this is a difficult topic, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere!?

So that we're clear, it seems you are very much in agreement with the sentiment that having sex with a 17-year old is rape, is that right?

No, I never said that. I don't know the exact US law on this, I'm just saying that if the law says you're a rapist, you have to live with the consequences. Not really hard to understand.

And it's not about if the law is right or wrong. Again, you have to be aware that you could be in serious trouble if you sleep with said girl. And this should influence your reasoning and ultimately, your later actions.

Lol.. wow.

Okay, well.. let's start here.

In the hypothetical that you took exception to, you feel that the minor, the child, in this instance is not able to consent; in other words, they are unable to conceptualize sex and therefore unable to give permission to another to engage in sex. Is that right?

p.s.
How old are you?

Gour, why do you make it personal? Cause I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion.
But whatever, I'm 23.

 

[godfather]

Technically, 19, is still a teenager. I've never known anyone at 19, to be fully developed as a human being either. So, I agree in the sense, where do we draw the line?

19 is legally an adult age, but I seriously wouldn't consider most at 19, serious adults.

I agree, that people at 16 aren't fully developed, but I don't really think you're fully developed as a person, for most people, until about 26.

People at age 20, and 19, and fully developed and functioned adults? Pleaseeee.

The age varies with each person, but there's not a literal set age from which a person is fully developed as a grown adult, that's capable of making sound decisions on their own.

I just find it hilarious just because we put a "legal age number" on people, that should qualify as meaning everyone is truly a functional adult the minute they turn 18.

Look, anyone willingly in their 30s, engaging in sex with girls that are 17/16, are clearly fucked up individuals, there's no debating that.

But say someone that's 22, has sex with a 17 year old? Come on... And to expect them to act like fully functional adults, capable of making completely rational decisions is hysterical.

 

[Lee]

I think @gourimoko is definitely right that there is a really tough gray area with that stat rape laws, particularly with people who meet in high school and keep dating while one party is in college. I wouldn't consider that party a rapist.

I also agree that it's pretty tricky when girls go to clubs looking a lot older than they are, and guys being put in a nasty position because of it.

While there are a few areas in the law where it shouldnt be "rape", the fact that less than .1% of the statutory rapes fall into this category. Ie, high school senior dating a high school sophomore, ore meeting a girl in a club.

99.9% of these rapes are legitamtely situations where the adult belongs in jail.

 

[The Oi]

Here's all IGAF about. Laws need to be established that female teachers of ANY age that have sex with teenage boys are not prosecuted for ANYTHING.

THAT SHIT IS NOT RAPE. These women should be sainted.