Jason Lloyd's final thoughts

[The Human Q-Tip]

Unbelievable. How/why was Green's hand there in the first place?

Delly had inside position for the rebound. The idea of fouling the guy behind you by grabbing his arm as you're heading to the basket with position is nonsensical. You have position -- why the hell would you commit a foul to possibly give that up?

Green was the guy out of position for a possible rebound, and so had the incentive to grab Delly from behind to try and get an advantage. A completely dirty play, and there is no other explanation for Green's hand being where it was. There was no ball on the ground or anything, so what legal, legitimate reason did green have to reach his arm underneath Delly's from behind? It makes no sense as any kind of a basketball play.

Once Green's illegal grabbing knocked Delly went off balance, and led him to fall, perhaps Delly may have clamped down on Green's illegal grab to take Green with him. Or, maybe Green just had his arm there hooking and was pulled down because of his own grip.

But in either case, that's a foul on Green for reaching in from behind and pulling on Delly's arm to try to keep him from the basket. He clearly initiated the illegal contact that led to them both being on the floor.

I don't see that as even being arguable.

 

[Phills14]

I've defended Delly before and I do not believe he's a dirty player but this play wasn't totally clean from him.

You can see he pins Green's arm and puts his butt into him causing Green to lose balance. I don't think either of them fall if it weren't for Delly's right leg completely giving out on the play. If you watch, his right leg quickly and dramatically gives out and sweeps towards Green. I see 1 of 3 things happening with the leg and I can't tell which one it is.

1. Green pushes down on Delly's back with his forearm and he's just not stable enough to support that weight so the leg gives out.

2. Delly intentionally sweeps the leg causing both players to tumble

3. The leg just flat out gives out.

I can see any one of those 3 scenarios but they aren't in that predicament if Delly is not bending Green over and pinning his arm.

Edit- Green is a bitch for laying on top of Delly knowing that he just crushed his head into the floor boards. Any decent human being would roll off pretty quickly but Green has proved on the court he's not respectable.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I've defended Delly before and I do not believe he's a dirty player but this play wasn't totally clean from him.

You can see he pins Green's arm and puts his butt into him causing Green to lose balance. I don't think either of them fall if it weren't for Delly's right leg completely giving out on the play. If you watch, his right leg quickly and dramatically gives out and sweeps towards Green. I see 1 of 3 things happening with the leg and I can't tell which one it is.

1. Green pushes down on Delly's back with his forearm and he's just not stable enough to support that weight so the leg gives out.

2. Delly intentionally sweeps the leg causing both players to tumble

3. The leg just flat out gives out.

I can see any one of those 3 scenarios but they aren't in that predicament if Delly is not bending Green over and pinning his arm.

Edit- Green is a bitch for laying on top of Delly knowing that he just crushed his head into the floor boards. Any decent human being would roll off pretty quickly but Green has proved on the court he's not respectable.

Unless Delly has eyes in the back of his head, there is simply no way he could have done all that intentionally. He's running full speed towards the basket, then finds the inside of his left arm from behind by a guy he can't even see. Really freaking easy to go off balance and fall under those circumstances. And if you're running and are pulled on your left side the way Delly is, it is natural that you're right leg is going to trip.

Again, what was Green doing with his hand on the inside of Delly's left arm, under his shoulder. in the first place when the ball was still in the air? What is the non-foul explanation for that?

 

[The Oi]

You guys are proving unable to be objective.

Green has his arm under Delly's as he jockeys for position like players do EVERY TIME THERE'S A REBOUND.

Delly hooks Green and pulls him on top of him while they're both moving forward. It's not impossible to do that if you're both running forward and the guy behind you isn't expecting to stop suddenly. You guys that have been on a damn motorcycle or four wheeler and had someone riding behind you know damn well that you could lock your arm around someone's that's under your armpit.

Maybe Green exaggerated the fall? I don't know. Don't really care. Green can be an asshole and I wouldn't feel bad if he got hurt.

But either way, if you guys can't acknowledge than Green reaching over Delly while jockeying for position isn't dirty and that Delly pulled Green over his own body, you're full of shit.

I get it for sure. Delly's our guy. But you're being dense.

 

[SanduskyCav]

For the record, I agree 100% that Delly made the attempt to pull Green down. I just don't see it happening without Green playing into the fall...

If he made the attempt I don't feel that Green who is at Delly's back, at this point both of there momentum has pretty much slowed down, would be able to be pulled down by Delly in that fashion.

 

[Phills14]

Unless Delly has eyes in the back of his head, there is simply no way he could have done all that intentionally. He's running full speed towards the basket, then finds the inside of his left arm from behind by a guy he can't even see. Really freaking easy to go off balance and fall under those circumstances. And if you're running and are pulled on your left side the way Delly is, it is natural that you're right leg is going to trip.

Again, what was Green doing with his hand on the inside of Delly's left arm, under his shoulder. in the first place when the ball was still in the air? What is the non-foul explanation for that?

I mean guys hands are all over the place as they are trying to get position for rebounds. It happens at the local Y and is even more so at the NBA level. I don't think Green is fouling him in going for the rebound actually. It's normal rebounding contact. If the refs call Green for a foul for where his hands are then you can literally call a foul on every contested rebound in the history of the NBA.

As far as the eyes in the back of his head comment, he doesn't need that. Delly knows damn well from the release of the shot that Green and him are going to be in contest for the rebound. He knows he has the inside position and he knows he has to put his ass into the bigger, stronger, more athletic Green if he's going to get this board.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You guys are proving unable to be objective.

Green has his arm under Delly's as he jockeys for position like players do EVERY TIME THERE'S A REBOUND.

Delly hooks Green and pulls him on top of him while they're both moving forward. It's not impossible to do that if you're both running forward and the guy behind you isn't expecting to stop suddenly. You guys that have been on a damn motorcycle or four wheeler and had someone riding behind you know damn well that you could lock your arm around....

But either way, if you guys can't acknowledge than Green reaching over Delly while jockeying for position isn't dirty...

But Green wasn't reaching over Delly, which is a legit basketball play. You can't reach up for the ball if your arm is under someone else's.

And the motorcycle four wheeler thing is ridiculous. In fact, if someone did do the motorcycle thing of wrapping their arms around someone else from behind, that would be a foul in basketball because you can't grab the ball that way. All you can grab is the man.

This wasn't a static play. Both guys were moving towards the basket for position, not just standing there with some normal pushing/shoving. One guy looked to be ahead and getting inside position, and the other guy looked like he was about to get boxed out.. Why would the guy who had inside position and was moving towards the basket foul the guy behind him? Doesn't the guy who is behind and the incentive to pull the other guy's arm and hold him back?

Tough to tell because of when that loop starts with Green's hand already in position, but I'd like to see how/when Green moved his hand there in the first place. He was getting beaten to the basket, and he knew it.

 

[The Oi]

But Green wasn't reaching over Delly, which is a legit basketball play. You can't reach up for the ball if your arm is under someone else's.

True.

His arm is definitely under rather than over him. My point is that jockeying for position and grabbing aren't out of the ordinary. And that Green was doing nothing dirty there.

And the motorcycle four wheeler thing is ridiculous. In fact, if someone did do the motorcycle thing of wrapping their arms around someone else from behind, that would be a foul in basketball because you can't grab the ball that way.

What's going on here man? Are you intentionally being dense or are you just wanting an argument?

I'm not saying Green was wrapping Delly up with both arms and hugging him. What I'm saying is that if someone is behind you, you know that when their arm is in between your arm and your chest, you can control their arm.

We've got people claiming that it's impossible to control someone's arm once you have it between your under-arm and chest. And that's bullshit. You can demonstrate it to yourself while you're sitting there if you're flexible enough to reach behind your own back. If not...the four wheeler/motorcycle analogy is me giving you an every day example that demonstrates how you can indeed control someone's arm that's behind you once it clears your underarm.

Delly is clearly in position to control Green's arm there. I'm just giving you guys an every day example of how you can prove to yourself that if you have someone's arm in that area, they are at your mercy.

Why would the guy who had inside position and was moving towards the basket foul the guy behind him? Doesn't the guy who is behind and the incentive to pull the other guy's arm and hold him back?

To get a foul called on Draymond Green and maybe even a tech, considering that he's a hot-head.

This is a thing Delly does. Delly goes out of his way to get key players on the other team to react to him. And he's been successful with it, presumably while you've been watching television. This isn't out of character for him. He did it to Taj Gibson, probably while you were watching the game. Different type of play, but same motivation.

Why is it out of the question to you that he'd have been doing it again here during a play where he clearly pulls a player on top of him from behind?

Tough to tell because of when that loop starts with Green's hand already in position, but I'd like to see how/when Green moved his hand there in the first place. He was getting beaten to the basket, and he knew it.

That's all true, for sure.

But after Delly beat Green to the hoop, he decided he'd try to get a foul called on Green as well. It was a heads up, and also dirty, play.

 

[The Oi]

And to further clarify...

I don't think Delly intended to hurt Green. I think he was strictly after a reaction. But I think the result of that play COULD have been the same as the Olynyk on Love play.

And with that said, I thought Olynyk's plan was CLEARLY to separate Love's shoulder. He didn't just grab the arm like Delly did...he also pulled the arm forward and didn't stop the motion until he likely felt Love's arm give.

Delly stopped as soon as Green was falling on top of him.

 

[Noonan]

My read on this is that Delly got out Delly'd. He hooked Green's arm, more to be a pest than to actually cause injury. But when Green saw the opportunity to go to the floor and land on Delly's head, he took it.

This is the same guy who "accidentally" hit Conley and LeBron in the face. He's great at making contact look unintentional. Somewhere Mike Dunleavy is applauding.

 

[The Oi]

My read on this is that Delly got out Delly'd. He hooked Green's arm, more to be a pest than to actually cause injury. But when Green saw the opportunity to go to the floor and land on Delly's head, he took it.

This is the same guy who "accidentally" hit Conley and LeBron in the face. He's great at making contact look unintentional. Somewhere Mike Dunleavy is applauding.

Could definitely see the ass to head maneuver being intentional.

 

[rosebowl89]

Delly is the worst at playing dirty of all time. Always gets the worst of it when making these dirty plays

 

[supermario21]

Jason is going to take a lot of heat for voting Iguodala Finals MVP, but kudos to him I say.

 

[MoGottiFor3]

"Remember, I was one of the only people in the country to vote LeBron first and Curry third on my ballot for regular season MVP, so I’m perfectly open to going against popular opinion. If anything, these Finals only justified my regular season MVP ballot and I absolutely leave here believing I got this one right, too."

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland...lse&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

[Green Lantern]

I didn't care at all about the MVP Award..All I cared about the Cavs winning the title.