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Joey Votto

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Stark said:
Generational type hitting talent that is constantly overlooked because he spent his entire career (thus far) in Cincinnati, just like how nobody talks about Todd Helton anymore.

Led the NL in OBP six times, and is doing so again this year.
Led the NL in BB five times.

Take away his injury riddled season in 2014, and the guy hasn't finished a season with a BA below .305 since 2008.

Should have at least two MVP awards, maybe three. Finished second to Stanton last year just because he hit 59 homers. Don't care, Votto had a far more polished all-around season in my opinion. He was very good in 2015, but I was fine with Harper and Goldschmidt finishing ahead of him.

Gold Glover.

His MVP season in 2010 was straight insane.

.324 BA
.424 OBP
.600 SLG
1.024 OPS
37 HR
36 2B
113 RBI
16 SB


If this guy had spent his entire career in the Bronx or with the Dodgers, we'd probably be annoyed with how much we'd be hearing about him. Fantastic player.
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Todd Helton is also discounted (rightfully) because he played in Colorado.

Accounting for park factors, the guy is much closer to Jim Edmonds and Danny Tartabull than he is to the all-time great hitters
 
Derek said:
Todd Helton is also discounted (rightfully) because he played in Colorado.

Accounting for park factors, the guy is much closer to Jim Edmonds and Danny Tartabull than he is to the all-time great hitters
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That's fair.

.345 career hitter in Colorado; .287 on the road.

Looking at that 2000 season in a vacuum though and damn...

.372 BA (.391 at home; .353 on the road)
.463 OBP
1.162 OPS
42 HR
59 2B
147 RBI
216 H
103 BB
403 TB

Like, Coors or not, just damn. What a year.
 
Derek said:
Todd Helton is also discounted (rightfully) because he played in Colorado.

Accounting for park factors, the guy is much closer to Jim Edmonds and Danny Tartabull than he is to the all-time great hitters
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Here's another good one for you in the whole Coors Field discussion and how crazy of an advantage those guys have out there that get 81 games a year.

Larry Walker had a great year on paper in 1999:

.379 BA, .458 OBP, 1.168 OPS, 37 HR, 115 RBI, 26 2B, 166 H

On the road (over 61 games and 240 PA), he batted .286 with 11 HR and 45 RBI.
At home (over 66 games and 273 PA), he batted .486 with 25 HR and 77 RBI.

Crazy.
 
Stark said:
That's fair.

.345 career hitter in Colorado; .287 on the road.

Looking at that 2000 season in a vacuum though and damn...

.372 BA (.391 at home; .353 on the road)
.463 OBP
1.162 OPS
42 HR
59 2B
147 RBI
216 H
103 BB
403 TB

Like, Coors or not, just damn. What a year.
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2000 was like the fucking wild west for hitters

I mean, shit, Garciaparra hit .372 that year and was only the 11th best hitter by wRC+

Manny Ramirez had 38 bombs and 122 RBI in just 118 games while hitting .351
 
Derek said:
Borderline? Conservatively, the guy is one of the top 20 hitters of all-time.
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His numbers actually only say borderline, since he won't have 3,000 hits, 500 HRs etc. I feel he is a hall of famer and he has earned that regard but the writers who look at numbers, won't vote him in since I don't think he will reach any of those "numbers" that are the basis of getting in anymore. The more traditional ones who say certain numbers will get you in, are still around sadly.

Now that being said, this current era of play will likely change some of those numbers. It may only be 200 wins to get in from now on as a starting pitcher, which puts guys like CC, Verlander in the Hall of Fame. We will never see another 300 win pitcher anymore, so things will slowly change since players seem to play less innings even though we have the same amount of games. If changes happen, this may allow guys like a Kluber (who came up when he was older) to get in the Hall of Fame because of their dominance in a ten year span. Current era starting pitchers will likely only get 500 starts in their whole careers, so to win 200+ games in that time period, would truly say something of dominance in the sport as a pitcher.

So I agree with you in the sense of how good of a hitter he truly is, but politics of the voting may stop him from being a first ballot hall of famer. This is just looking at reality of the politics of being voted in overall, but I feel he should be without a doubt a first time ballot hall of famer.
 
PIP said:
Just wondering what the baseball people here think about Joey Votto and his overall career ?

IMO he’s one of the most underrated players I’ve ever seen. Primarily because of where he plays and his franchise.
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Who?
 
Joey Votto sucks.

He hasn't played on a winning team because he doesn't know how to be anything else other than a me me me guy.
 
Looking at the difference between the consistency of Votto's age 30-33 compared to 34-36 years and $20m+ salary, no wonder we didn't keep Santana even with his positive clubhouse presence, better defense and high OBP.
 
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