Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[shoes22]

Anyone think the "Manziel Package" is just talk and gamesmen ship by the Browns in hopes that Pittsburgh spends even a little bit of time preparing for him instead of putting 100% of their efforts towards the Brian Hoyer led offense?

To be fair, I don't think it takes much to prepare against Brian Hoyer.

 

[Frank Stallone]

Lol. What a fucking douche.

Hoge calls Johnny Manziel 'a juvenile punk'

Merril Hoge blasted Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel on Wednesday.

In every possible way.

Hoge, a former Pittsburgh Steelers running back appearing on Pittsburgh radio station WDVE, said Manziel looked lost in the preseason and "has no business being on the field" in the Browns' season opener in Pittsburgh.

Hoge added Manziel has no quality that translates to being a first-round draft pick.

He even referred to Manziel as a "juvenile punk," as evidenced by his text to Browns quarterback coach Dowell Loggains on draft night that he wanted to join the Browns and "wreck this league," though the actual language was more profane.

"That didn't just burn players; it infuriates coaches," Hoge said. "It told you, too, that he's a juvenile punk. He was like that, and he's still like that."

Browns coach Mike Pettine was very clear in saying Brian Hoyer will have the team's support as the starter, and won't have a quick hook. Hoge thinks that helps the Browns, because he does not believe Manziel is ready.

Pettine said he did not want to get in the habit of responding to every criticism, but Hoge is entitled to his opinion.

"I just know," Pettine said, "that in the age that we're in of sensationalism a lot of times people that want to be heard have to make bold statements in order to bring attention to themselves. I think that's something that's a regular occurrence in this league."

Hoge pretty much lit up the Browns' rookie, saying he shows no understanding of concepts of play structure or the structure of an offense. He said he watched all of Manziel's preseason runs, and on every one "he could have thrown the football had he understood where he was supposed to go in the structure of the play."

He also criticized Manziel's arm, saying it's not strong and that against the Bears he could not throw a deep corner.

Hoge even implied criticism of owner Jimmy Haslam, saying the Rooney family would never interfere with anything in Pittsburgh, but that with some teams an owner expresses his positive opinion because he watched a player on "SportsCenter."

"You trump coaching," Hoge said. "You trump the evaluations of guys who have been doing it for years. Then you force them (the coaches) in a position that is just brutal. That coaching staff, I feel bad for them. They've got to deal with this."

The Browns obviously saw something different. They have entrusted the backup job to Manziel, which means he is one play away from being on the field.

"If you're the Steelers, you want him on the field," Hoge said. "You really do. Hoyer, listen, he didn't shine and he's nothing special, but he's a lot more dangerous than Johnny Manziel."

Quipped Pettine of Hoge: "Where'd he play?"

 

[Phills14]

To be fair, I don't think it takes much to prepare against Brian Hoyer.

Listen they gotta take every advantage they can get...

 

[Soda]

Anyone think the "Manziel Package" is just talk and gamesmen ship by the Browns in hopes that Pittsburgh spends even a little bit of time preparing for him instead of putting 100% of their efforts towards the Brian Hoyer led offense?

Yes. Pettine said quite early, after the draft, that defenses are going to have a hard time if they have to gameplan for a two QB offense. If you ask me, there's a clear correlation between what he said before and what's happening with Pittsburgh now.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/24/browns-may-use-manziel-in-a-specialty-package/

For a guy who lived through the Mark Sanchez/Tim Tebow debacle in New York, Browns coach Mike Pettine doesn’t seem to be concerned about his quarterback competition in Cleveland becoming a potential two-man show. In fact, it looks like that’s what Pettine wants.

During his interview with Tony Grossi of ESPNCleveland.com, Pettine said that the team is considering using Manziel as a Wildcat-style change-of-pace in his rookie year.

“We’ve already talked about it,” Pettine said regarding the possibility of using both Manziel and Brian Hoyer in the same game.
“We’ve already installed elements of it in the spring. We ran some of the zone-read stuff in practice and Kyle [Shanahan] incorporated some of the mobile quarterback elements of what he did in Washington. We’re still going to go back to the beginning in pads, but as we get going, some of the stuff that’s more game-plan-specific that we don’t want to show, we might work on in our walk-throughs as opposed to a public practice.”

Pettine wisely didn’t point to the Sanchez-Tebow experiment as justification for doing it.

“That’s how Colin Kaepernick got his start in the NFL, as a package quarterback,” Pettine said of the former 49ers backup. “On the other side of the ball, I’ve seen that give defenses some trouble. I think there’s positives and negatives to it. You’re taking your starter off the field. You have his rhythm and continuity to take into account, but at the same time defensively you’re now forcing a team to basically come up with two game plans. I mean, there are pluses and minuses to it and it’s something I’m sure will be discussed at some point.”

In theory, the Jets wanted Tebow because of the pressure that preparing for two quarterbacks puts on a defense. And if former offensive coordinator Tony Sporano had any faith at all in Tebow, the Jets may have actually used him.

The Jets and Pettine nevertheless got a first-hand look at the challenge of dealing with two quarterbacks in September 2012, when Kaepernick rushed five time for 50 yards and a touchdown coming off the bench and showing the Jets how to properly employ a two-quarterback system.

If the Browns could pull it off, the dilution of the ability of the opposing defense to fully prepare for each guy could help both guys thrive. The only downside is that, as Manziel has more and more success, more and more fans will be clamoring for him to be something other than a part-time player.

 

[The Oi]

Anyone think the "Manziel Package" is just talk and gamesmen ship by the Browns in hopes that Pittsburgh spends even a little bit of time preparing for him instead of putting 100% of their efforts towards the Brian Hoyer led offense?

Yes.

Every year with every new coach, the Browns do this during their "Quarterback battle" under the pretense that they're going into the week with even the slightest idea of how they can actually throw a defense off.

Newsflash:

When your top receivers are Miles Austin and Andrew Hawkins and your Quarterbacks are a rookie with minimal discernible football talent and a 28 year old career back-up, you can't.

In any case...I'm streaming the Steelers defense against the Browns this week, so if they throw Manziel out there I should get at least a couple sacks and a fumble and an interception or two. Definitely at least one TD. Maybe even a sack-fumble-TD.

 

[Soda]

What good have the Browns done that's being/been called dumb luck?

I'm not falling for the calling for empirical evidence that is ambiguous. Name me something the Browns have done that's good (insert shitty joke) that was attributed to good planning... Brian Hoyer? Dumb luck. If Pettine is good? They fell into getting him...

There's just generally always a reason why something good happened to the Browns and it is generally alluded to as a joke.

 

[MRMsix6]

I think most of us have concerns about Manziel, but we can at least we can recognize that he isn't some talent-less ass-clown in the league purely on hype. Ok, the ass-clown part is true. Say what you want about his gimmicky offense, but he did destroy the SEC as a freshman and win the Heisman. You don't do that without some sort of incredible talent, regardless of how you think it translates to THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

That was quite the attention seeking #hotsportstake by Hoge, and he can go fuck himself along with the rest of Steelers Nation.

 

[Frank Stallone]

I think most of us have concerns about Manziel, but we can at least we can recognize that he isn't some talent-less ass-clown in the league purely on hype. Ok, the ass-clown part is true. Say what you want about his gimmicky offense, but he did destroy the SEC as a freshman and win the Heisman. You don't do that without some sort of incredible talent, regardless of how you think it translates to THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

That was quite the attention seeking #hotsportstake by Hoge, and he can go fuck himself along with the rest of Steelers Nation.

Yeah, I don't care what anyone says about Johnny, that Hoge interview is such a load of trash. Man what a shock-jock interview to garner attention. Love the Pettine comment at the end. Fuck that guy.

 

[elcheato]

The reason the Steelers will spend practice time preparing for a potential Manziel package is because it doesn't take much preparation time to get ready for an offense that starts Brian Hoyer at QB, and Austin Miles as it's #1 WR.

 

[The Oi]

I'm not falling for the calling for empirical evidence that is ambiguous. Name me something the Browns have done that's good (insert shitty joke) that was attributed to good planning... Brian Hoyer? Dumb luck. If Pettine is good? They fell into getting him...

There's just generally always a reason why something good happened to the Browns and it is generally alluded to as a joke.

Funny you brought up those two things...

As far as Hoyer goes, I've never seen anyone describe finding him as lucky. Though it appears that he was a good grab, it's way too early to tell whether he's good or bad. Last year was overall good for two games, this pre-season was beyond awful. We'll see if/when he gets a full season in what he really is.

First off, the guy has played in two full games and looked above average at best. Second of all, I don't recall anyone seeing that it was lucky that they ended up having to start him because they didn't have anyone better and the guys in front of him got injured. The reality has been that in 15 years, zero of these regimes have found an acceptable QB in spite of numerous top 10 picks and trade-ups and trade-downs during the draft. So I mean...why forgive all of these front offices for either not drafting QBs or whiffing when they do?

Second of all, IF it turns out that Pettine is good, it doesn't excuse the fact that their coaching search was a fucking travesty. Personally, I highly doubt anyone's singing his praises after this year. This is going to be a REALLY bad team. Maybe in 2016 we'll hear people praising him. Too early to say.

 

[shoes22]

Maybe in 2016 we'll hear people praising him.

I'd be shocked if he's even still the coach in 2016, given this franchise's tendency to hit the reset button.

 

[Soda]

Second of all, IF it turns out that Pettine is good, it doesn't excuse the fact that their coaching search was a fucking travesty. Personally, I highly doubt anyone's singing his praises after this year. This is going to be a REALLY bad team. Maybe in 2016 we'll hear people praising him. Too early to say.

So, in other words, they'll have gotten lucky if he's good in 2016.

 

[The Oi]

Here's the handful of things I can think of that we can safely say that the Browns have done well since they returned. I'm not counting guys that have a minimal sample size, regardless of how well they've played. I'd love to count Gordon, because he's fucking incredible on the field but he can't stay on it.

If you want to be a team like the Patriots, Steelers or Ravens or more recently the Seahawks and 49ers you need people who are going to put consecutive good years together.

Finding Josh Cribbs
Drafting Joe Thomas
Drafting Joe Haden
Keeping Phil Dawson
Drafting Alex Mack
Hiring Norv Turner

Those were all awesome moves and had nothing to do with luck. Those were all savvy moves that made sense. Turner didn't pay off, because of course they fired him immediately.

Are there more things I'm forgetting about?

 

[AZ_]

I'd be shocked if he's even still the coach in 2016, given this franchise's tendency to hit the reset button.

Tendency?

I'm all for the pessimistic view of the Browns' chances this season, but the current Browns ownership has been here a year.

I'd advise you look up what a tendency is. Unless you're discussing this in the cleveland.com tone of counting the past regimes, which makes sense going along with your posts in the Indians game thread last night.

Brutal take.

 

[The Oi]

So, in other words, they'll have gotten lucky if he's good in 2016.

If he turns out to be a good coach, he'll have been a good find in spite of the fact that their top choices turned the Browns down that year and they embarrassed both themselves and Pettine with the way the tail end of the coaching search ended.

If they can finally find a good coach, it will mean he's considered a good coach because the defense became elite or they finally got a QB...so it will be easy to forgive the travesty that the coaching search was.