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Not if he doesn't win and doesn't play defense again. He'll be known again as an empty stats guy.
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Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine
- Thread starter Jack Brickman
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Not if he doesn't win and doesn't play defense again. He'll be known again as an empty stats guy.
Brevin Knight
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He was known always as an empty stats guy. The thing is those Minny teams were worse than the ones KG was on. God himself won't be able to carry them. If Love played in the east he would've been able to take the 7 or 8 seed and perhaps he would've been viewed differently.
That Minny team gets criminally underrated by people who didn't actually watch them that season
They were deffo 7th-9th seed material when Rubio and especially Pekovic were balling. Im a bit fuzzy on their personnel at the time but Martin, Brewer and Derrick were also decent. Just they (the whole team) were awfully inconsistent from game to game but a better floor raising talent would have gotten them in the playoffs
Some felt that a 26/13 guy should have the dominance to at least get that lot to the 8th seed.
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People forget Love missed most of the season the year before that. That season they won 31 games. More than any season with Love until his last year there.
The issue for Kevin is did he peak at 25? He use to be a bull in the paint. Physically its a struggle for him at times now.
If we're keeping him we did him to be more efficient. He's gotta start shooting closer to 50% and it would help if he stops missing so many bunnies.
Rich
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Never gonna happen if as long as he shoots as many 3s as he does.
I'm just waiting for Kevin Love to come out and demand a trade at this point. Golden State didn't go shopping Klay Thompson after his less than stellar finals last year just because they lost. Something with this fan base and this particular organization that all winning must be done immediately and at any cost.
I don't think the 3's are whats keeping him from shooting 47% from the field. I think its all the missed bunnies and his inability to post up against anyone other than Lance Stephenson or Marcus Smart.
Klay Thompson is actually really good on defense.
Kevin Love was pretty bad in last year's finals and we barely squeaked by.
So either he's been not healthy to play in year 1, doesn't play well in year 2, or has the two worst shooting games of the playoffs when we need him the most.
With the Warriors adding Durant we NEED Kevin Love to be great or at least someone that can be great against the Warriors.
Its not a Kevin Love issue its a Kevin Love against GS Warriors issue. We need him at his absolute best. It is what it is.
jhollandsworth
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The two situations are completely different.
The number one difference is Golden State's core are all on the front-end of their prime years. There is no urgency to "win now" because they already win and know they will continue to win even if they don't swap pieces. If there were a legitimate threat to them, they would evaluate re-arranging things. The Cavs have a time bomb situation because of Lebron's contract and his ability to continue playing at an elite level as he enter's his mid-30's. The Cavs can't ride out Golden State's dominance. Lebron's decline will happen much sooner that Curry and Durant's, barring injuries.
Not only that the Warriors have maybe the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league on their team.
So now its required that our 3 guys play at their best. That goes for Kyrie too. And that goes for LeBron defensively.
We have no margin for error so we need our 3 best players to be on their A game. Its extremely tough to beat them when Love is shooting 38% from the field.
Klay "struggled" and we still lost in 5. Him and Draymond struggles was the perfect time for Love to play as well as he did vs. Boston.
Hopefully it means his apologists go along with him. Here are some intangibles he needs to work on if we are to have a chance next june
-Doesn't set hard screens for the shooters to get open
-Doesn't lock down anyone. Has to be hidden on the worst offensive player. This is no longer an option against the Warriors
-Doesn't punish smaller players like Klay in the post
-is the opposite of rim protection. Presence under the rim actually makes players feel encouraged to waltz into the paint. This one is just a killer when you're talking about a power forward
-immobility means he can't utilise open space from attention Lebron/Kyrie commands to attack closeouts
-Inconsistency means his ability to cash in on open looks they create isnt reliable.
-misses open bunnies for fear of getting stuffed
-rarely shows up in tight moments when defenses ramp up the effort
-Turnover machine when doubled in the post so his post game is easily gameplanned
-below average defensive awareness means he doesn't have the defensive reads to make up for his lack of lateral quickness.
These things dont show up in the stat sheet but his two great skills (rebounding and shooting to a lesser extent) do
Rich
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You two missed the part about "last year." They didn't go shopping Klay Thompson "last year" after losing the Finals.
So this whole "they have no threat and will continue to win" stuff makes no sense. That was not the case "last year."
Golden State has 3 years left, max, to keep these four together.
I repeat, Golden State has 3 years, at the absolute max, to keep these 4 together.
LeBron will be 35. Will he still be the best player in the world? No. But you know what, neither was Tim Duncan when he made the Finals two years in a row and won one of them.
jhollandsworth
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The fact that we have to debate whether or not Kevin Love can exist on this team is a 100% testament to how powerful the Warriors are. Against the other 28 other teams, Love is a big plus. The games where we would just rain 3's between Love, JR, Korver, and Frye were a blast. Unfortunately, the situation we're in against Golden State, Love is just not as valuable as Paul George or Jimmy Butler would be, especially with the other shooters we have on the team. The fact that Kyrie and JR are outstanding shooters, coupled with how well Lebron shot in the finals, lessens the need for Love's shooting. Against Golden State, we need more athletic and mobile players who can cause defensive breakdowns on offense. Having three world class athletes like Kyrie, Lebron, and Butler/George will not only make your offense more efficient, it will also make your defense much stronger.
I see adding Butler or George to this team at the expense of Love as a massive step forward against the Warriors. Assuming Love has neutral value against the Warriors, you could almost compare such a move to how Golden State added Durant. Durant's efficiency went through the roof in the playoffs and I'd expect Love's replacement to be the same. Granted, Durant is clearly a better player than either of them and a substantially better shooter, but the efficiency gains will be similar.
Once you have that, you can start entertaining the idea of flipping Shump and TT for Carmelo. At that point, you're doing much smaller optimizations against the Warriors. The big gain will come from flipping Love.
Games 3 and 4 showed the gap isn't insurmountable. I'd be really disappointed IF any offer for Butler or George for Love was on the table and passed on by the Cavs.
I see adding Butler or George to this team at the expense of Love as a massive step forward against the Warriors. Assuming Love has neutral value against the Warriors, you could almost compare such a move to how Golden State added Durant. Durant's efficiency went through the roof in the playoffs and I'd expect Love's replacement to be the same. Granted, Durant is clearly a better player than either of them and a substantially better shooter, but the efficiency gains will be similar.
Once you have that, you can start entertaining the idea of flipping Shump and TT for Carmelo. At that point, you're doing much smaller optimizations against the Warriors. The big gain will come from flipping Love.
Games 3 and 4 showed the gap isn't insurmountable. I'd be really disappointed IF any offer for Butler or George for Love was on the table and passed on by the Cavs.
Derek
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It amazes me how some people still don't understand that FG% is an awful indicator of scoring efficiency.
His eFG% and TS% are both very good, which, when used together, deliver a much more accurate picture of a player's scoring efficiency.
I just don't think he's reliable and consistent enough against the Warriors, nor do I think that changes. He has the Bosh complex only Bosh was amazing defensively and could play the 5. That's my biggest problem and why if he returns, with no one better to place him as #4 in the pecking order, this will be a poor off season.
Here's the other issue. LeBron was amazing offensively against the Warriors. What if he dips next year? Can Love pick up the slack scoring or not?
Thats a real concern going forward. People mention Duncan, but other guys stepped up once he started to step back.