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Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

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Is Kevin Love a Hero for Saving a Dog?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 48.3%
  • Too Right!

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • Hotter than Jimmy G

    Votes: 15 25.9%
  • Jim Chones

    Votes: 13 22.4%

  • Total voters
    58
He was forced to put-back his misses at the rim because he couldn't go above the rim and finish with authority. Don't get me wrong. He really is a great rebounder. And he is a great shooter. It's perfect for spreading the floor. But I don't think he can take control of the game physically, especially in the post. It's also why health is also an issue.

With all that said, he's still important for us to contend. And to defeat the Warriors. Hope it works out.

I'd like to see more sets that are designed for Love to hit cutters and shooters after catching the ball. It felt like whenever he touched the ball against them, they'd swarm him and guys weren't moving to visible openings.

He also needs to continue to receive the ball in motion. I know he's a horrible screen setter, but there have to be plays available that involve Love cutting down the baseline from the corner.
 
I'd like to see more sets that are designed for Love to hit cutters and shooters after catching the ball. It felt like whenever he touched the ball against them, they'd swarm him and guys weren't moving to visible openings.

He also needs to continue to receive the ball in motion. I know he's a horrible screen setter, but there have to be plays available that involve Love cutting down the baseline from the corner.

Tyronn Lue would have to be retarded to not call more plays for Love now that Irving is gone (and without Thomas starting the season), that should be a given. It probably would encourage LeBron to set up more plays with Love now that he's the true secondary option on the team. And for Love, that means he'll need to come to camp ready for those expectations as well.

Everything is aligned for Love to succeed. Those 19-11 numbers will probably go up a little as well (he was at 20+ points before the injury). If health permits, he can also be an all-star. He just needs to stay fucking healthy to begin with...
 
He was pretty damn good against them last finals though? TTs lack of rebounding and Shump taking a 3 every time he touched the ball were the real problems
If you think those were the real problems, then you haven't watched the finals man.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
If you think those were the real problems, then you haven't watched the finals man.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I mean the warriors themselves are the real problem, but to put the blame on Kevin is just wrong
 
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I'd like to see more sets that are designed for Love to hit cutters and shooters after catching the ball. It felt like whenever he touched the ball against them, they'd swarm him and guys weren't moving to visible openings.

He also needs to continue to receive the ball in motion. I know he's a horrible screen setter, but there have to be plays available that involve Love cutting down the baseline from the corner.

I agree, one of things I'm most looking forward to without Kyrie is less iso ball. It will require Bron to actually move without the ball more often rather than dumping it off to Kyrie and standing 2 feet behind the 3pt line or running in the corner while he does his thing. Overall there just needs to be more motion and an actual offensive structure so that the team can sustain itself when Bron sits. And unfortunately I think those expectations far exceed what Lue is capable of.
 
I mean the warriors themselves are the real problem, but to put the blame on Kevin is just wrong

Trust me, I am the biggest critic of KL, but in all honesty I think he would be fine if we had an actual big man that could cover for him defensively and was a threat on the offensive end. He basically gets exposed in all the same ways that Dirk did until he was paired with Tyson Chandler who could do all of the dirty work for him.

I'm thinking someone in the realm of Nerlens Noel, Steven Adams, Clint Capela, DeAndre Jordan, Hassan Whiteside
 
I agree, one of things I'm most looking forward to without Kyrie is less iso ball. It will require Bron to actually move without the ball more often rather than dumping it off to Kyrie and standing 2 feet behind the 3pt line or running in the corner while he does his thing. Overall there just needs to be more motion and an actual offensive structure so that the team can sustain itself when Bron sits. And unfortunately I think those expectations far exceed what Lue is capable of.
Time will tell but I don't trust Lue. He has a bias for perimeter players initiating the offense. He would have Love spotting up for kick outs while Shumpert dribbled away the shot clock. He would only give Love the ball to ISO score in the post which became very predictable for other teams to guard. Will bash my head on the keyboard if the new season comes and I see more of the same..
 
Time will tell but I don't trust Lue. He has a bias for perimeter players initiating the offense. He would have Love spotting up for kick outs while Shumpert dribbled away the shot clock. He would only give Love the ball to ISO score in the post which became very predictable for other teams to guard. Will bash my head on the keyboard if the new season comes and I see more of the same..

I agree, he's not put in any of the right positions to maximize his skillset. Lue needs to take note of everything Dallas did with Dirk. IMO Love could dominate the high-post elbow in isolation sets. From there he could pop the jumper over smaller defenders (or draw fouls) and with one dribble he could overpower them and drive to the basket.

It's also much harder for teams to dbl team him from that position and easier for him to see the floor and find shooters when they do. One of the things GS does so well is forcing Love out of his comfort zone out to the 3pt line where he cannot beat his defender off the dribble effectively, simply reducing him to a jump shooter.
 
If Love's playmaking abilities were maximized in Cleveland he could have a Draymond-esque effect on the Cavs.

No, he isn't half the defender but he's the far, FAR superior scorer and I think he's every bit as intelligent and cerebral the player that Green is.

I give Lue credit for giving Love a more concentrated role on offense (only slightly, as his encouragement of Kyrie's ISO habits only served to further marginalize him at times), but he has not tried to run the offense through Love, which I think needs to happen. LeBron has also hinted that's what we should be doing.

If Kyrie's departure means more cultivated team play with Love as the fulcrum, then hallefuckinlujah.
 
Worth reproducing the whole Zach Lowe article here, it's excellent. He takes a midpoint position, arguing that A) we are not maximizing Love's talents with the way we use him, and B) the game has moved away from Love somewhat because bigs are much more switchable than they used to be


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20695669/zach-lowe-kevin-love-cleveland-cavaliers-nba

It appeared in some form in almost every analysis of the landmark Kyrie Irving-Isaiah Thomas swap: Irving would thrive in Boston and evolve from his hoggy dribbling in his new pick-and-roll partnership with Al Horford -- a shifty screener who can shoot, roll, and keep the ball whizzing with expert passing.

So, umm, didn't Irving just get out of a partnership with Kevin Love -- a shifty screener who can shoot, roll, and pass, and was considered in many corners a top-10 overall player when Cleveland flipped Andrew Wiggins (and Anthony Bennett!) for him three years ago? If Thomas is out for an extended period, shouldn't Cleveland be able to maintain an elite offense -- and avoid overtaxing LeBron -- by leaning on its other All-Star?

But Love's name barely appeared in any evaluation of the trade, or of how Cleveland might proceed without Thomas. If anything, he was trade bait again. Jae Crowder could siphon some of his minutes as a small-ball power forward, and the Cavs finally had a tasty trade asset -- the Nets pick -- to attach to Love in trade talks for another star. The degree to which Love had become an afterthought was astounding.

Playing alongside two pick-and-roll maestros transformed Love into a third wheel, just as Chris Bosh warned. He was a glorified Ryan Anderson at times, chilling along the 3-point arc while LeBron and Irving ran the show. He became a different player. The Cavs bristle at the idea that he became a worse player. They are confident Minnesota Love still exists, and they are redesigning their offense -- and potentially their rotation, featuring more of Love at center -- to unleash him again.


Whether an older Love weathered by injuries can still be that player in a LeBron-centric offense, against opponents who have gotten smarter about defending him, is one of the looming season's thorniest questions. Cavs coach Tyronn Lue has talked before about giving Love the ball more, but it has never stuck for more than a few games at a time.

"Kevin is going to have the best year that he's had here," Lue told ESPN.com this week. "I thought he was great anyway. You keep bringing up Bosh. What did Bosh average in Miami? Kevin averaged almost 20 [points] and 10 [rebounds] with two other All-Stars. If you are on a championship-caliber team, you have to sacrifice. But this year is going to be a big opportunity for him. We're going to play through him more. He's going to get those elbow touches again."

The Cavs outscored opponents by almost 15 points per 100 possessions in the 227 minutes when Love and LeBron played without Irving, raising hope they can rampage the East even while waiting for Thomas. That depends on Love tapping into at least some of his old alpha dog vigor, just as Bosh did after James left Miami.

Bosh was more than a glorified Ryan Anderson during Miami's Big Three era because he reinvented himself on defense as a swarming, lunging disruptor. Miami would not have won two titles without Bosh reimagining his game.


Love was never going to be able to compensate for a reduced offensive role by ramping up his defense. He was just a plain third option. Love was both a starter and finisher of possessions in Rick Adelman's flowing corner offense in Minnesota. Third options who play alongside LeBron are mostly catch-and-shoot bystanders.

"We can't run all the stuff that Minnesota used to run," Lue said. "We have different personnel. We have LeBron, and we had Kyrie. We don't have a lot of great cutters."

Having the league's best third option is nice, but it's an expensive use of finite resources. For what Cleveland pays Love, they could find two or three effective bystanders who play better defense.

"LeBron needs to have the ball so much for you to be as good as you can be," David Griffin, then the Cavs GM, told me during the 2015 Finals, when James carried the Cavs within two wins of the title as both Love and Irving nursed injuries. "You need to be very selective about the guys who get to have it when he doesn't."

The Cavs have contemplated trading Love off and on almost since that series, though they have no plans to do so right now, sources say. (Love does not have much standalone trade value.) They nearly flipped him for Paul George in a three-team trade in late June. It sometimes seems remarkable Love has survived this long in Cleveland, and that he outlasted Irving. Love sulked during much of the 2015-16 season. He absorbed LeBron's passive-aggressive tweets, the dirty looks after botched rotations on defense. It would not have been surprising had the Cavs lost him sometime in the winter of 2016.

They reeled him back in. When Lue took over for David Blatt in January of that season, his very first meeting was with Love, Lue said. That March, during a dispiriting road trip when it appeared the Cavaliers were on the verge of coming apart, Lue profanely commanded Love reassert himself. Channing Fryelightened the mood after the Cavs rescued him from Orlando that February by pointing out how absurd it was for a championship contender to be so angsty. Frye and Richard Jefferson famously smothered Love, barging into his house for dinner, discovering Lil' Kev, re-engaging him with the team.

Love stood to fight in those Finals, and with Thomas' status uncertain, the Cavaliers need an approximation of Minnesota Love now. To maximize Love, LeBron must democratize the offense. Manage that, and Love still has to contend with a league that has shifted strategically under his feet.

There is some low-hanging fruit. Love was one of the league's three or four best facilitators from the elbows during his Minnesota prime; he averaged almost 12 elbow touches per game in 2013-14, trailing only Marc Gasol, per SportVU data. He touched the ball there just 2.8 times per game last season.

Letting Love survey things, teammates whirring around him, unlocks his elite passing. He should fit well with Crowder, a sort of sneaky cutter the Cavs haven't really had in LeBron's second stint there; Crowder shot 79 percent on shots taken immediately after cuts, fourth best among 137 players who attempted at least 50 such shots, per Synergy Sports.

Love even ran funky inverted pick-and-rolls around the elbows in Minnesota, with guards springing him with surprise pindown screens:

Gorgui Dieng:

Ricky Rubio, telegraphing a chance for Love to jaunt toward the rim.

Tristan Thompson is clogging the paint, his defender ready to pounce on Love. Thompson also just can't throw the kinds of big-to-big passes that led Love to buckets in Minnesota.

The Cavs are intrigued by shifting more of Love's minutes to center -- without Thompson. The quartet of LeBron, JR Smith, Crowder and Love provides a nice mix of skills, and could function just fine even without a traditional point guard while Thomas recovers. It gives Cleveland the best chance of roping the biggest opposing player into guarding Love, and exploiting that; Love slips to the rim way more often when he plays center in wide-open space. Switching the LeBron-Love pick-and-roll becomes a no-go if a lug has to guard LeBron on the other end of it.

Some opponents may downsize right along with Cleveland, but that is a painful tradeoff for any team with a center type among its best players. Hiding that player elsewhere -- on Crowder, or some other fifth wheel -- won't be safe against the most potent Cleveland lineups.

Those lineups won't hold up defensively against the Warriors. News flash: No lineups will. The Warriors are probably the greatest offensive team ever assembled. They might be the greatest team, period, ever assembled.

Even when Thompson is the main screen-setter, the Cavaliers can still make Love an active part of their offense with quick ball reversals -- actions that play on the threat of his shooting:

Minnesota Love might be dead. But there is a player between that version and the one we've seen so far in Cleveland. In a pivotal season, with LeBron's potential exit hovering over the franchise, the Cavs have to find him.
 
Time will tell but I don't trust Lue. He has a bias for perimeter players initiating the offense. He would have Love spotting up for kick outs while Shumpert dribbled away the shot clock. He would only give Love the ball to ISO score in the post which became very predictable for other teams to guard. Will bash my head on the keyboard if the new season comes and I see more of the same..

Does he have a bias, or did he have two of the five best perimeter scorers in the game?

Love got the touches he got the last three years because LeBron and kyrie were just better options. With kyrie gone that should obviously go up.
 
Does he have a bias, or did he have two of the five best perimeter scorers in the game?

Love got the touches he got the last three years because LeBron and kyrie were just better options. With kyrie gone that should obviously go up.
That was also a factor but he didn't exactly change the offense when LeBron wasn't on the floor. At some point at the start of the season, even with Lebron on the bench we had Shumpert initiating with Love spotting up.

There were many opportunities to have Love facilitating from the elbow but he never took them because he was fixated on making the 'LeBron system' work even when LeBron wasn't playing. This is why I was cautious about giving him the benefit of the doubt. The Lue quotes in the article posted by cavsfever have done a lot to relax those fears though. Seems Lue at least has an awareness of Love's unused abilities.

Funny enough back when LeBron was still in Miami, a lot of Heat fans also criticised Spoelstra for not using Bosh enough when Lebron sat
 
Lets hope Kevin has the mindset to score 25 to 30 every game to start the season.

We know LeBron will coast so the opportunity is there for Love to take over and really build confidence.

Love couldn't really assert himself back in 2015/2016 without Kyrie because he was coming off the shoulder surgery.
 
We know LeBron will coast
I'm not so sure of this. LeBron has been a demon in the gym this summer and I don't wonder it's partially due to a recognition of how ripe his MVP narrative is this year after Kyrie's defection...
 

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