Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[Marcus]

Yeah, Love leaving would be a killer, I agree, but it still makes 0 sense for me that he would. I just don't see how someone who wanted the max and a chance to win will pass that up just to go put up better numbers and win less while getting paid less.

As for the bolded, this has rarely happened lately until the San Antonio game, which I thought was reported that his back was acting up. I mean, just watching the game you could tell he was off...the dude was on one knee during some free throw attempts at one point in the 2nd half. I don't think I've ever seen that in an NBA game.

And we will always be staring down the barrel of a gun. We're Cleveland, the media will try to force out star players all the time. This has been happening all of my life with the Indians and the Cavs. Belle, Ramirez, Thome, Sabathia, Lee, LeBron, Kyrie, and now Love. We'll deal with it again in a few years when Kyrie's contract is up too, guarantee it. Just the way it is.

This post is on point. No two ways about it.

Makes zero sense for Love to leave. He plays on a winning team for the first time, and they can pay him more money than anyone else. He was upset with Minnesota because they didn't pay him what he was worth and they weren't winning. Both of those problems are solved here, albeit at the cost of some suffering production because of the fact he plays with the best player in the world and probably the best young guard (22 years old!) in the game.

With the rise of things like social media and viral marketing, market size is hardly a compelling argument anymore. You can get just as much exposure playing in Cleveland as you could playing in New York or Los Angeles. The only people who disagree are the Lakers and Knicks fans who are desperately clinging to the hope that their favorite franchises will be attracting top tier free agents this summer.

I think he's handled it publicly about as well as he could have to this point. Not much complaining. He himself said that winning makes it a lot easier to deal with having a down season in the production department, and the funny thing is that he's still averaging 17/10 as a third option, one of only a select few players (I think 10, but it might be even less) in the league to be averaging those numbers. If he was making one more three per game, we likely wouldn't even be having discussions about his production, because let's face it, who in their right mind is going to bitch about their third option averaging 20/10?

He has clearly sacrificed the most out of everyone when it comes to changing the way he plays the game. He has grown dramatically on the defensive end of the floor and he is playing a role on offense that, while not tailored to the way he plays the game most effectively, is working well when combined with the other big scoring elements on the team. It was evident how much they missed him on Monday - without him on the floor, the other team's bigs can clog the paint more, giving guys like LeBron and Irving less flexibility to finish at the rim. How many blown/blocked layups did we see that night? How many possessions ended with LeBron or Irving on their asses after a failed layup attempt?

For a guy that many criticized as a "me-first" and "empty stats" player during his time in Minnesota, and one who is having a down year (by his standards) in the production department, that's pretty damned impressive. He's given up a lot in his game to make it work, but the way he truly impacts the floor is only going to show up on the statlines for other players on the team.

 

[theSTEREO.]

I'm sad now... Just brings back really bad memories of 2010.

Everyone said then "he's not going anywhere... book it."

I... don't think that was the case... at all.

And I think we can all agree the situation are vastly different.

To be fair, I could have missed something in the Windy interview. But he did say nobody in Love's circle thinks he like Cleveland. God, I hope he doesn't leave.

To be fair as well, Windy spent all of last year saying the exact same thing about Kyrie. Exact. And Kyrie stayed long term.

So either Windy gets bad info.

Or, he gets good info, and it just goes to show you people can be fairly easily convinced to stay in a situation they previously didn't like if you give them the right reasons. Like, say, a max deal and deep playoff run / championship ring.

 

[elcheato]

Yeah, Love leaving would be a killer, I agree, but it still makes 0 sense for me that he would. I just don't see how someone who wanted the max and a chance to win will pass that up just to go put up better numbers and win less while getting paid less.

As for the bolded, this has rarely happened lately until the San Antonio game, which I thought was reported that his back was acting up. I mean, just watching the game you could tell he was off...the dude was on one knee during some free throw attempts at one point in the 2nd half. I don't think I've ever seen that in an NBA game.

And we will always be staring down the barrel of a gun. We're Cleveland, the media will try to force out star players all the time. This has been happening all of my life with the Indians and the Cavs. Belle, Ramirez, Thome, Sabathia, Lee, LeBron, Kyrie, and now Love. We'll deal with it again in a few years when Kyrie's contract is up too, guarantee it. Just the way it is.

I understand the rationale here with winning and the max contract, but we were hearing every reason as to why Dwight Howard wouldn't leave the Lakers, and then he did. Now, this is a different situation as the Cavs are better than the Lakers, but some guys are just different. He wants to win, but he's not playing in 4th quarters and the Cavs aren't using him as much as he'd like and he doesn't like the role the Cavs want him to play. For every reason there is for him to stay, he has another for him to leave. Everyone wants to win, but at the cost of their personal happiness? I'm not so sure.. When he was in Minnesota he was considered the best PF in the league, and no one really ripped on him. His defense is being ridiculed now more than it was there given that the national eye is on him. It comes with the territory obviously, the backlash happens when you're in the public eye more often. The decision is if it is worth it for him, and it's hard to tell from the outside looking in, but it's not good that apparently everyone around the league thinks he's leaving (Not saying that is the end all be all, just saying it's not what I or any Cavs fan should want to hear).

 

[gourimoko]

I... don't think that was the case... at all.

It wasn't...? Lol.. That's exactly what I remember. Everyone from insiders to LeBron's best friends were saying he was staying in Cleveland.

And I think we can all agree the situation are vastly different.

I don't think we do agree on that, to be honest. Maybe to us as a franchise, but not to the individual player. He still has the opportunity to test free agency.

To be fair as well, Windy spent all of last year saying the exact same thing about Kyrie. Exact. And Kyrie stayed long term.

Totally, I was the #1 guy blasting Windy for this.

So either Windy gets bad info.

Or makes stuff up.

Or, he gets good info, and it just goes to show you people can be fairly easily convinced to stay in a situation they previously didn't like if you give them the right reasons. Like, say, a max deal and deep playoff run / championship ring.

It keeps being said, but Kevin Love can get a max anywhere.

I can only go from my gut on things like this.. since it's purely speculative. I alway ask myself, "what would gour do?"

Personally, if I were Love, I'd have a serious sit down conversation with Blatt and tell him straight up, either figure out how to use me or I need to talk with management about being traded to a team that will.

I would not want to have spent all those years training, practicing, and getting better only to sit on the bench or be relegated to being a spot-up shooter.

Everyone here keeps relying on the fact that the Cavs are winning; but that's not the only thing of importance. What if we continue winning, yet to do so, Love won't see another All-Star game? Does Love stay in Cleveland then?

Again, to miss the All-Star game, to be called a "specialist," to sit idly from the bench, all largely because of the system installed by the coach, yes that would make me think twice about staying in Cleveland.

If I'm saying "my back isn't the problem," "I'm only doing what I'm told, for better or worse," and "I'm not a spot up shooter," I think the message would be loud and clear.

 

[theSTEREO.]

Yeah, Love leaving would be a killer, I agree, but it still makes 0 sense for me that he would. I just don't see how someone who wanted the max and a chance to win will pass that up just to go put up better numbers and win less while getting paid less.

As for the bolded, this has rarely happened lately until the San Antonio game, which I thought was reported that his back was acting up. I mean, just watching the game you could tell he was off...the dude was on one knee during some free throw attempts at one point in the 2nd half. I don't think I've ever seen that in an NBA game.

And we will always be staring down the barrel of a gun. We're Cleveland, the media will try to force out star players all the time. This has been happening all of my life with the Indians and the Cavs. Belle, Ramirez, Thome, Sabathia, Lee, LeBron, Kyrie, and now Love. We'll deal with it again in a few years when Kyrie's contract is up too, guarantee it. Just the way it is.

Pretty on point in this whole post.

And to your point bolded above, even if (and I don't believe this is the case), but even if he truly wants out, smart players (read "not Dwight") almost always take the big money deal and force a trade. Like Carmelo is likely going to do. Cavs can't sign and trade Love, so his only shot at getting his max deal is to sign here and then make his way elsewhere. He can get that done.

Especially for a guy like Kevin Love, who was disrespected on his last contract and told for years he can't be a winning piece on a winning team... and who took that all very very personally... doesn't seem at all like the kind of guy who will accept less money to go to a worse situation to pad his stats. At that point, he is essentially confirming the stereotype of himself that he has fought tooth and nail for four years to resist.

 

[supermario21]

So maybe he opts in and demands a trade? He'll get a max from someone.

 

[theSTEREO.]

I don't think we do agree on that, to be honest. Maybe to us as a franchise, but not to the individual player. He still has the opportunity to test free agency.

As far as strict free agency goes, you are right.

As far as circumstances go, not the case at all. It's like I said before, this isn't 2010 Lebron who had felt he hit his ceiling with that Cavs roster and wanted to vault to the next stratosphere. Like I said before, at this point, Kevin Love leaving the Cavs would be like Bosh leaving the Heat after 2011 and going back to the Raptors.

It keeps being said, but Kevin Love can get a max anywhere.

No, he can't. The only way he gets his full max is by signing with the Cavs, or getting a sign and trade, which is impossible due to our luxury tax standing.

I explained more in the post I just made.

Otherwise, we're on the same wavelength.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I understand the rationale here with winning and the max contract, but we were hearing every reason as to why Dwight Howard wouldn't leave the Lakers, and then he did. Now, this is a different situation as the Cavs are better than the Lakers, but some guys are just different. He wants to win, but he's not playing in 4th quarters and the Cavs aren't using him as much as he'd like and he doesn't like the role the Cavs want him to play. For every reason there is for him to stay, he has another for him to leave. Everyone wants to win, but at the cost of their personal happiness? I'm not so sure.. When he was in Minnesota he was considered the best PF in the league, and no one really ripped on him. His defense is being ridiculed now more than it was there given that the national eye is on him. It comes with the territory obviously, the backlash happens when you're in the public eye more often. The decision is if it is worth it for him, and it's hard to tell from the outside looking in, but it's not good that apparently everyone around the league thinks he's leaving (Not saying that is the end all be all, just saying it's not what I or any Cavs fan should want to hear).

This really needs to stop being used as a reason he'd leave. After that Phoenix game debacle, it hasn't happened since, save for the San Antonio game which I already touched on being a medical thing. People are blowing the SA game way out of proportion (and this entire Love situation).

And the LAL and Dwight comparison is poor because it wasn't that the Lakers didn't have the pieces the Cavs had, its because Kobe was an asshole to Dwight. You can fire a coach, or bring in a new front office to appease a player, but you can't trade Kobe to make Dwight happy. That isn't happening here. Love has been treated well by the players on the team, there has been no turmoil reported by anyone that the lockerroom is toxic. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Most players, including Love, have said this is the closest team they have been on and the most fun they have ever had with a team in the league.

And lastly, there is no Houston with James Harden and Chandler Parsons lining up in free agency with room for the non-Bird max anytime soon for Love. He can go rot in LA or Boston or New York for the next few years if he values his personal numbers over winning, which again would contradict nearly every reason why he wanted out of Minnesota in the 1st place and all the things he said immediately following the trade to Cleveland.

 

[supermario21]

If anyone wants to watch, Simmons and Russillo talk about Kevin Love for a long time starting at 17:00. Simmons is baffled that Love can't get on the floor in crunch time.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YIrAWdXV8g

 

[theSTEREO.]

So maybe he opts in and demands a trade? He'll get a max from someone.

This is not unreasonable.

If Kevin really thinks he might want out, his best financial bet is likely to tell the Cavs "I'm gonna opt in for 2015-16, and if things don't turn around for me by midseason, trade me because I'm bolting in 2016."

I don't see that as likely, but it's probably his smartest play if that is really how he feels. Which I don't think he does.

 

[Dshuks]

The Dwight Howard-Lakers comparison doesn't really work . Steve Nash was way past his prime , and Kobe was on the start of his decline.

Compare that to Kyrie who hasn't even really entered his prime and Lebron whose still in his prime although close to the end of it.

He's still averaging around 17 points a game on a team with the second best record in the east

If he doesn't like that I don't know what he was expecting. Kyrie and Lebron are both ball dominant players , and Love is basically in the Chris Bosh role of this trio.

 

[castor777]

I'd be pissed off if I wasn't being used properly. Not every team is like the Spurs where everyone is ok with not playing or being used in the offense. Dude put up 26/13 last year and now is Ryan Anderson 2.0. He can easily go to another team, get a max contract, win lots of games, and be utilized properly.

This is exactly the impulse, knee jerk reaction that's driving my nuts. Sorry, I don't mean to call you out - but the whole narrative you're suggesting is ludicrous.

Let me see if I get this right. Kevin Love plays for a terrible Minnesota T'Wolves team for the first 6 years of his career. During that time, he puts up flashy stats but the Wolves are awful, and when the chance to get a max contract comes up - he loses it to Ricky Rubio. He recovers from some injuries and plays brilliantly the last season there, but the Wolves continue to underwhelm and they finish below .500. After making it known he wants a trade, he finally lands on a team with a new Big Three nucleus. He acknowledges he'll have to sacrifice and even says he'll mop the floors if it'll get him an NBA title. Currently, that team is 2nd in the East and look to have a very good chance of making it to the Finals. But somewhere, in your narrative, he looks back on that 26/13 season where they DIDN'T make the playoffs and says "oh man, I need to back to doing that. Forget this whole winning thing, it's all about my individual stats."

Look, we all know full well he hasn't been utilized properly yet. The team continues to adapt, but they're still trying to figure out how to use Love properly so I don't blame him if he's a little ticked off they haven't figured it out by now. But the only way he returns to this 26/13 player is by going back to a bad team with a losing culture. With everything the guy went through in Minnesota, I highly doubt he's really thinking that's a better option to him than playing with LeBron James & Kyrie Irving in Cleveland.

 

[Dshuks]

This is exactly the impulse, knee jerk reaction that's driving my nuts. Sorry, I don't mean to call you out - but the whole narrative you're suggesting is ludicrous.

Let me see if I get this right. Kevin Love plays for a terrible Minnesota T'Wolves team for the first 6 years of his career. During that time, he puts up flashy stats but the Wolves are awful, and when the chance to get a max contract comes up - he loses it to Ricky Rubio. He recovers from some injuries and plays brilliantly the last season there, but the Wolves continue to underwhelm and they finish below .500. After making it known he wants a trade, he finally lands on a team with a new Big Three nucleus. He acknowledges he'll have to sacrifice and even says he'll mop the floors if it'll get him an NBA title. Currently, that team is 2nd in the East and look to have a very good chance of making it to the Finals. But somewhere, in your narrative, he looks back on that 26/13 season where they DIDN'T make the playoffs and says "oh man, I need to back to doing that. Forget this whole winning thing, it's all about my individual stats."

Look, we all know full well he hasn't been utilized properly yet. The team continues to adapt, but they're still trying to figure out how to use Love properly so I don't blame him if he's a little ticked off they haven't figured it out by now. But the only way he returns to this 26/13 player is by going back to a bad team with a losing culture. With everything the guy went through in Minnesota, I highly doubt he's really thinking that's a better option to him than playing with LeBron James & Kyrie Irving in Cleveland.

Exactly if Kevin Love is averaging 26/13 on a team I'm betting that team doesn't have a good chance of reaching the finals.

 

[theSTEREO.]

Yeah, nobody is ever gonna convince me that the Kevin Love and Dwight Howard situations are in any way similar other than their contract status with new teams.

The 2012 Lakers were an even worse version of November Cavs, only on top of all the losing, add in the fact that the other stars on the team were on the wrong side of 30, and imagine if Lebron just DESPISED Kevin Love and was constantly yelling at him in game, in practice, and so on. That was Dwight's life.

 

[MirORich]

I respect the opinions of those who want to make a case for the legit possibility of the worst case scenarios unfolding, but in the end, whether we win the title or not this year, when things have calmed down, the season can be looked back on, the coach and management can meet with the player and explain how they can grown together in year 2, I just don't see Love leaving for less money and too start the process all over again.

He has seen first hand this year how hard it is even next to two players like LeBron and Kyrie to find instant chemistry and instant winning. There are very few situations he could leave for that would even have that level of starting point. This has been a difficult season and an adjustment for Kevin no doubt, so I understand living moment to moment and fearing that he could leave.

Just really don't think its the end result, even if he seriously entertains the possibility himself.