Kyrie Irving

[Chris]

The last 4 FIBA MVPs:

Dirk, Pau, Durant, Irving

Cool, but I'm not sure how it applies to what you quoted, unless you just wanted to say it to someone. I was saying that FIBA MVP wouldn't be brought up if it was won by the guy on the other side of the argument. Just my opinion and could be wrong. It's a several days old debate anyways.

 

[Jscc]

Wade's defense was exceptional, and a big part of what made him an MVP-quality player. I honestly don't see Kyrie ever getting close to that.

Wade's defense was also largely because he was athletic and could bully smaller point guards. Give Kyrie those natural gifts and he'd be just as good defensively.

 

[Chris]

Wade's defense was also largely because he was athletic and could bully smaller point guards. Give Kyrie those natural gifts and he'd be just as good defensively.

Very possible, but he isn't so that has nothing to do with his point. Kyrie will need to focus on effort and technique to improve as a defender since he isn't as gifted in that department. I think it's certainly doable and we saw him improve this year.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

And in regards to what mike and mike were discussing; there is no doubt Kyrie will surpass Wade, even if talking about Wade's prime years.

Eaaasy there. There aren't 10 players in the history of the NBA that I would take over Wade in his prime.

If he can become equal to Wade at some point, that's a huge accomplishment.

 

[mrbeaks]

Here's a stat that's probably out there, but I can't find it: how often has Kyrie scored on a LeBron assist and vice versa compared to LeBron-Wade?

 

[Jon]

Instead of talking about where the best guard in the east ranks as a "PG", how about we talk about how well he fits in as LeBron's teammate. Kyrie's 30 point in his playoff debut is 2 more points than Wade's best game in all of last year's playoffs. In fact, Wade only scored 30 or more points 3 times in the last 3 years of playoffs where the heat won 2 championships.

Kyrie may fit in better beside LeBron than Wade ever did because I never get the sense that his scoring takes away from what LeBron does the way Wade did. Kyrie generally scores in the flow of the offense when they are on the court together and takes over the scoring load when LeBron sits. Kyrie has always been as comfortable playing off the ball as he is as the primary ball handler and is deadly at catch and shoot.

Without being better than prime wade as an individual player (yet), Kyrie is probably the best fit as a teammate LeBron has ever had.

Same goes for Kevin ... James has always thrived with 2 or more floorspacers and that was hard to achieve with Miami's lineup initially. The Achilles heal for the Cavs is of course our defense. I look forward to seeing what Dave Blatt and staff have in their bag of tricks over the course of the playoffs. They may have to perform some magic.

 

[gourimoko]

Same goes for Kevin ... James has always thrived with 2 or more floorspacers and that was hard to achieve with Miami's lineup initially. The Achilles heal for the Cavs is of course our defense. I look forward to seeing what Dave Blatt and staff have in their bag of tricks over the course of the playoffs. They may have to perform some magic.

Our defense is what worries me the most. It's why I want no part of Golden State, because I fear we won't be able to make such a drastic adjustment and it'll be 2009 all over again.

I went on about this in the Blatt thread; but, that team scares the shit out of me... I'd rather play the more traditional, euro-style Spurs than the Warriors. Even though the Spurs are the tougher matchup positionally; I don't know if we can successfully defend the 3-point line over 7 games. I also don't know if we can withstand an onslaught from Curry and Thompson if both start going off simultaneously... And Curry is more consistent than Kyrie...

It's just a bad matchup all around.

 

[Jon]

Wade's defense was also largely because he was athletic and could bully smaller point guards. Give Kyrie those natural gifts and he'd be just as good defensively.

Not in Wade's class, but Kyrie doesn't lack athletic gifts. Other than his vacillating effort level, it's not clear to me at all why he's struggled as much as he has on defense.

 

[gourimoko]

Not in Wade's class, but Kyrie doesn't lack athletic gifts. Other than his vacillating effort level, it's not clear to me at all why he's struggled as much as he has on defense.

They say he plays an old man's game because he doesn't rely on or really use his athleticism in his game. In his rookie season, that was a big part of his development, just getting to be in NBA game shape. He's still a work in progress in that department.

But he's definitely not athletic in an NBA sense. Nor does he have the long-arms, wide palms, super-quick lateral movement, and hyper-fast reflexes like Wade - or many other NBA players for that matter.

This doesn't mean he can't be a good defender, because for stretches of this season he's demonstrated excellent defense. Last game, he was our best defender on the floor for ample stretches of the game.

But it does mean he can't rely on whatever level of athleticism he may have to help him defensively. If anything, he is most likely at a disadvantage athletically against opposing good-to-elite guards.

 

[theSTEREO.]

Our defense is what worries me the most. It's why I want no part of Golden State, because I fear we won't be able to make such a drastic adjustment and it'll be 2009 all over again.

I went on about this in the Blatt thread; but, that team scares the shit out of me... I'd rather play the more traditional, euro-style Spurs than the Warriors. Even though the Spurs are the tougher matchup positionally; I don't know if we can successfully defend the 3-point line over 7 games. I also don't know if we can withstand an onslaught from Curry and Thompson if both start going off simultaneously... And Curry is more consistent than Kyrie...

It's just a bad matchup all around.

I know the regular season is a whole different animal, but I think the Cavs defended the Warriors excellently in their last meeting. Completely removed Steph from the game (or at least as much as anyone can).

The Cavs defense hasn't been otherworldly this year, but when the really big games came through, they stepped up.

A lot of teams worry me, but I can't say the Warriors scare me anymore than the Spurs, and only marginally more than even the Clips or Grizz. All of those teams are top tier and will take a herculean effort to beat. We'll go in as a coin flip, at least against the W's or Spurs, IMO.

 

[brownsbuck6]

Our defense is what worries me the most. It's why I want no part of Golden State, because I fear we won't be able to make such a drastic adjustment and it'll be 2009 all over again.

I went on about this in the Blatt thread; but, that team scares the shit out of me... I'd rather play the more traditional, euro-style Spurs than the Warriors. Even though the Spurs are the tougher matchup positionally; I don't know if we can successfully defend the 3-point line over 7 games. I also don't know if we can withstand an onslaught from Curry and Thompson if both start going off simultaneously... And Curry is more consistent than Kyrie...

It's just a bad matchup all around.

Sorry, but no one can survive an onslaught if Curry and Thomspon both are going off simultaneously. Which is precisely why they will likely come out of the West and are so scary.. but, on the flip side, no one could hang with us if LBJ and Kyrie are going off simultaneously.

I agree with your concern about our defense but I promise you they share the same concern. It would be an epic finals.

 

[Ohio]

Don't care who it is, just not The Spurs.

Go Clippers (feel dirty saying that)

 

[Chris]

GSW is far from unbeatable. Cavs would have a pretty solid chance vs them, I think I'd give it a 50-50.

LeBron is quite a trump card.

 

[godfather]

Sorry, but no one can survive an onslaught if Curry and Thomspon both are going off simultaneously. Which is precisely why they will likely come out of the West and are so scary.. but, on the flip side, no one could hang with us if LBJ and Kyrie are going off simultaneously.

I agree with your concern about our defense but I promise you they share the same concern. It would be an epic finals.

I some what agree, but I think GS actually is the one team that possibly can hang with us, even if Kyrie and LeBron are still going off. Our meeting at the Q, neither one had a particularly good game (Klay and Curry that is).

GS scares the hell out of me. What scares me the most, is having to go into that building and at least getting one win in there, maybe even two.

Playing in that building is a nightmare.

GS scares everyone, and they should. Would love to see the Rockets, Grizzlies, Clippers, and even SA (although I don't think they're coming out of that Clipper series personally).

Going into GS, well technically Oakland, ugh, that's hell. Only lost 2 games there all year.

 

[priceFTW]

If Kyrie can become even a neutral defender, the Cavs become very, very difficult to defeat; as a plus defender, this team becomes an all-time type of juggernaut because his offense is going to continue to improve. IF Kyrie becomes a plus defender, this very same team has a legitimate shot at 67+ wins if it wants it. Heck, with this same team after the trades and Lebron's return, it played .791 ball while giving away two games to the Celtics. Playing .791 ball means we would be on pace to win 65 for an entire season.

In our best stretch of the season (game 42 versus Chicago to game 59 versus the Warriors), Kyrie was actually a plus defender (his DRPM was around +.35 in that stretch), pretty much one of the only real stretches in his career in which he was a plus defender. Our defense was at its best during that stretch. Coincidence? We shut down the Clippers, the team with the best offense in the league, during that stretch, and Kyrie harassed CP3 in that game.

Take a look at the first playoff game. Kyrie played really well offensively, but his defense was our defensive weakest link. Players he guarded were 9-17 from the field with two of those being three pointers. Add in FTs given up and his defense almost gave away as much as his offense gained.

Take a look at his DEFENSIVE FG% compared with others who have guarded the very same players he guarded throughout the year:

Overall: gave up 2.6% higher FG% than others who guarded the same players
3 pointers: 2.3% higher
2 pointers: 3.4% higher
Less than 6 feet: 5.0% higher
Less than 10 feet: 6.0% higher
More than 15 feet: 2.1% higher

All of those numbers were better earlier during that great stretch. In fact, he was guarding the 3 point line better than his peers were.

Compare his numbers this year to his numbers from last year:

Overall: gave up .3% higher FG% than others who guarded the same players
3 pointers: 1.9% higher
2 pointers: 1.3% higher
Less than 6 feet: 9.9% higher
Less than 10 feet: 9.2% higher
More than 15 feet: 0% higher

His DRPM improved to -.60, which is a great improvement over his abysmal -3.38 last year.

Our DRtg with him on court was 106.7 and 105.6 without him on court.
Last year, our DRtg was 110.1 with him on and 104.2 with him off.

So he's headed in the right direction in some ways, but he has a LOT of work to do. If he can improve the way Curry has on defense, he can be a dark-horse MVP type of player before too long.