Larry had fun today

[Jon]

But, as a teammate, employee, and player on a team that is supported by die-hard fans, it is hard not to feel like he robbed the fans when he accepted $65 million and doesn't do his best, listen to his bosses, or do what is right to win. That is not different than stealing (just like I am right now while typing this out on my company's time and computer).

He didn't say he tanked. Why do you assume he did because he stated enjoying the game was more important to him than just winning?

Players are human though, and you don't get 110% out of people unless you build an environment to encourage it. Do you think Larry or Ben wanted to kill themselves on the court for the 20000 fans booing them? Doubtful. Perhaps for their teammates. But that doesn't mean they didn't go out there and do their job.

There is a reason Gilbert has spared no expense on frills like a top notch locker room, private plane, private chefs, and deluxe practice facilities.

There is a lot more to motivating millionaires (or really anyone) than the fact they're receiving a pay check.

 

[_amon _ones]

He didn't say he tanked. Why do you assume he did because he stated enjoying the game was more important to him than just winning?

Players are human though, and you don't get 110% out of people unless you build an environment to encourage it. Do you think Larry or Ben wanted to kill themselves on the court for the 20000 fans booing them? Doubtful. Perhaps for their teammates. But that doesn't mean they didn't go out there and do their job.

There is a reason Gilbert has spared no expense on frills like a top notch locker room, private plane, private chefs, and deluxe practice facilities.

There is a lot more to motivating millionaires (or really anyone) than the fact they're receiving a pay check.

I get that, Jon, but he doesn't have to say he tanked. He made a poor judgement call saying what he did. In doing so, he placed doubt in the mind of most Cavs fans that he was putting forth the kind of effort that was expected of him. Whether he did or didn't give that maximum effort is irrelevant now. In choosing what he said to the media (and even being questioned on if he really wanted it to be said this way), he raised a level of doubt that he was doing anything outside of being selfish. I always thought LH was an excellent defender who didn't fit the Cavs game, and was just a victim of bad luck. Now, with these kinds of statements, I can't be sure. Could he have been giving maximum effort all the time, and was just the victim of bad luck and weird injuries? Absolutely. But, I can no longer be as positive or supportive of his tenure because of his statements. There is now doubt where there was none before.

As an aside, when your business is sports, you get paid to win. If you are not listening to your boss, who is telling you how to win, then you are robbing him. In retrospect, the only reason LH wasn't pulled as often as he was (how many times was he sitting in the 4th, so as not to kill the team's momentum?) was because of his immense talent (or the rest of the Cavs lack thereof). Jacking up 20 footers with 18 seconds on the shot clock is not working within the gameplan.

Basketball seems to be the only sport where potential talent can keep you in the game, no matter how bad you perform (VC, LH, Kobe in his piss poor efforts to show up management). If this was baseball or football, and he didn't give maximum effort, leg out a grounder, or attempt to drop a bunt because the coach asked for it, he'd be benched...immediately.

As for the last points, Dan Gilbert has spared no expense in giving his team every conceivable luxury to keep them happy, as well as, the team, itself, fostering an environment to enjoy each other's company outside of just basketball (hitting the strip clubs, birthday parties, pickup games, etc.). The organization tried to curb booing by over-enthusiastically lauding every good thing that Larry did on the floor. The fans just grew tired of it after 2.5 years.

 

[Splitz]

This may be somewhat off topic but I feel that it needs to be said. Some people on this forum openly stated that they would like to have Ben Gordon on the Cavs. I appreciate his ability to score in bunches but the guy is terrible IMO. He makes Hughes look like the messiah. If I was Chicago, I would hang on to Hughes and let Gordon go to another team and take 20 bad shots a game. He is the exact opposite of what we need on this team.

 

[Mac]

Ive always hated Ben Gordon, very overrated.

 

[Jon]

He made a poor judgement call saying what he did. In doing so, he placed doubt in the mind of most Cavs fans that he was putting forth the kind of effort that was expected of him.

Apparently so. lol But we don't really matter anymore, he has a new team now. LJ4MVP made a thread on this subject on RealGM and it didn't seem like anyone other than Cavs fans felt what he said meant anything.

Fact is we already knew this was how he felt, because Gilbert has said it for him, and that inspired numerous flames of both Gil and Larry. Why do we keep burning the same bridge over and over? heh

As for level of doubt, I guess that's always going to be there when a player under-performs. I can claim it was just his injury problems and not being involved enough in the offense and point to his month of February as evidence; but I can't say for certain that he wasn't just trying harder in order to raise his trade value. Then again, you can't say for certain that's what he was doing. If there were some strange bumps and dips in his performance that aligned with the trading deadline there might be a case, but I don't think so.

I think as fans we just feel better if we say "good riddance" rather than "good luck". We really don't want to see players we've let go, go on and succeed because it hurts that they couldn't do the same for us. IMO, it's an emotional defense mechanism.

As an aside, when your business is sports, you get paid to win. If you are not listening to your boss, who is telling you how to win, then you are robbing him. In retrospect, the only reason LH wasn't pulled as often as he was (how many times was he sitting in the 4th, so as not to kill the team's momentum?) was because of his immense talent (or the rest of the Cavs lack thereof). Jacking up 20 footers with 18 seconds on the shot clock is not working within the gameplan.

It's not that simple. Not in sports, not in anything. When you sit down and agree to a contract there's give and take on both sides. Larry was looking for certain things when he came to Cleveland, and we were looking for certain things when we signed him. Assuredly those things were discussed and everyone was happy with how they saw his role on the team. When things diverge too far from what was expected, you're going to end up with an unhappy and unmotivated employee. The NBA is no more immune from that, than any other job. It's just that these guys have sports agents telling them to STFU and let them handle things behind the scenes - because being perceived as a malcontent can cost a player future $$$.

I also disagree that football and baseball players don't struggle with effort and motivation. Sure managers may put their foot down when a rookie loafs to first base, or an NFL coach may cut a player on the spot if he doesn't see what he wants ... but when you start talking highly payed veterans that the team has a lot invested in - they can't be so rigid.

 

[_amon _ones]

Apparently so. lol But we don't really matter anymore, he has a new team now. LJ4MVP made a thread on this subject on RealGM and it didn't seem like anyone other than Cavs fans felt what he said meant anything.

Fact is we already knew this was how he felt, because Gilbert has said it for him, and that inspired numerous flames of both Gil and Larry. Why do we keep burning the same bridge over and over? heh

As for level of doubt, I guess that's always going to be there when a player under-performs. I can claim it was just his injury problems and not being involved enough in the offense and point to his month of February as evidence; but I can't say for certain that he wasn't just trying harder in order to raise his trade value. Then again, you can't say for certain that's what he was doing. If there were some strange bumps and dips in his performance that aligned with the trading deadline there might be a case, but I don't think so.

I think as fans we just feel better if we say "good riddance" rather than "good luck". We really don't want to see players we've let go, go on and succeed because it hurts that they couldn't do the same for us. IMO, it's an emotional defense mechanism.

I agree 100%.

It's not that simple. Not in sports, not in anything. When you sit down and agree to a contract there's give and take on both sides. Larry was looking for certain things when he came to Cleveland, and we were looking for certain things when we signed him. Assuredly those things were discussed and everyone was happy with how they saw his role on the team. When things diverge too far from what was expected, you're going to end up with an unhappy and unmotivated employee. The NBA is no more immune from that, than any other job. It's just that these guys have sports agents telling them to STFU and let them handle things behind the scenes - because being perceived as a malcontent can cost a player future $$$.

I also disagree that football and baseball players don't struggle with effort and motivation. Sure managers may put their foot down when a rookie loafs to first base, or an NFL coach may cut a player on the spot if he doesn't see what he wants ... but when you start talking highly payed veterans that the team has a lot invested in - they can't be so rigid.

It is much easier to bench a player for a few innings, a few plays, or a game in football or baseball. There are plenty of players to fill the void in both talent and desire, especially football, where you can be dropped, and most teams build their contracts to allow for that. Switching players in and out in football happens so often, that it is much easier to discipline a player for lack of effort without arousing too many suspicions. The player will be benched for a few plays, a quarter, a half, or whatever the coach feels gets his point across.

Baseball is similar, but a little more visible. Even if a player is seen to dog it on the field, it is taken care of, either immediately by being pulled, or in house in one way or another, such as kangaroo court.

There are obviously players in all sports who appear to be above reproach, but it is especially prevalent in basketball, where the roster size is limited and the talent gap is highly visible. Baseball can hide someone who screwed up by "allowing a player to rest a game" and football allows players to get "breathers" between series or whatever. That's much harder to do when someone like VC decides to pout and is obviously the most talented guy on the team and the team is paying him substantial amounts of guaranteed money to play. The team must fake an injury, or allow him to play, and either expect to lose, or hope that the player decides to actually use his talent that day. In any case, the player has a much greater advantage with NBA talent as opposed to NFL or MLB talent.

 

[Jon]

Funny ... one of the articles in the Washington Post this morning was about how the O's are finally starting to admit how dysfunctional they were and that it's going to take time to re-build and do things the right way. Apparently ever since Hargrove left the team the "inmates have been ruling the asylum". But yet their new manager was quoted as saying he doesn't tell the players what to do, he asks them.

All the sports are filled with prima donas. These kids have been idolized and had adults kissing their feet for what they do on a court or a field since junior high, and now many of them are getting paid millions.

The thing is, how much motivation and effort does it take to convince a baseball player to smack a baseball? Not much. It's what they want to do, afterall. Can the Indians get CC to lose weight, though? No. Can we get anyone to figure out how to lay down a decent bunt? No.

It's just different.

In the NBA some players can cruise on talent, but effort makes a huge difference. And a player who doesn't buy in to a team strategy becomes cancer. With only 5 players on the court at a time, you can only cover up so much. And sometimes the team is forced to make a tough decision. For instance, it looks like Antoine Walker is going to spend the rest of the season in street clothes after being unable to reach a buyout settlement with the TWolves.

So at least we were able to trade Hughes and get back some pieces we should be able to use. Imagine if he continued to shoot 30% while looking like the second coming of David Wesley and we had not choice but to sit him down until his contract expired? Ughh

 

[theSwayze]

As bad as what he said makes him look as a teammate and professional it says even worse about the quality of his character. The only time 'fun' is an acceptible sports metric is the Special Olympics which coincidentally does not pay millions of dollars a year. It awful that Larry is expected to sacrafice and work for his millions. When was the last time an adult got to go to work and say 'this isnt fun enough, transfer me to go have fun with the competition but maintain my obscene salary." The guy is a child lucky to have enough talent to milk money from an L short on talent. In fact I would say Larry (and other Larrys out there) is a great reason to contract the L by 4 teams or so.

Yes he did go go on a prescheduled charity event after the trade but pls dont confuse that with Larrry having a big heart. All NBA player have to spend a certain amout of time/resources working with charity on behalf of the L, its in the contracts they sign. If he'd blown off the one that night he'd be scheduling another in Chi, like blowing off jury duty except Larry gets paid to be there.

Is there a more clear sign of a player 'tanking' that taking pull up jumpers in a 3 on 2 break instead of actually initiating a play? Pull up jumper at 35%=fun, running a play that involves passing=no fun.

ok, Im already sick of talking about this turd.

 

[Rick Astley]

As bad as what he said makes him look as a teammate and professional it says even worse about the quality of his character. The only time 'fun' is an acceptable sports metric is the Special Olympics which coincidentally does not pay millions of dollars a year.

What I've been saying all along.

 

[bomber]

Don't let CavsRules read this.......

 

[bomber]

I get the feeling Gooden had a similar attitude. They both didn't really seem to care one way or another.

I dunno, Gooden probably doesn't know what attitude is or even what winning is. Not sure those are concepts he's able to grasp.

 

[Blazie]

Nah, Goods wasn't thinking the same way Larry was. He just wasn't thinking.

Too bad too, because he has the talent to be a great player. He's the only one of the two I wish well in Chi-town.

 

[chiefwahoo]

Gooden actually valued his time as a Cavalier, and because of that I think he'll always get a warm reception here, even if he was a bonehead:

The return of Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes was what we expected; for both, a strange feeling, as it will be for Ben Wallace and Joe Smith on the return engagement Thursday night in Chicago. Drew had a Cavs’ home white 90 draped over his leg in the Bulls’ lockeroom after the game. He says the guys he left will always seem like family, and added he’ll always be proud of the Eastern Conference championship banner in the rafters, and that can never be taken from him...

Source

 

[Splitz]

Gooden actually valued his time as a Cavalier, and because of that I think he'll always get a warm reception here, even if he was a bonehead:



Source

I always got the impression that Gooden enjoyed being here based on his antics and the hair fashions. You can tell he was "having a good time" here. The guy has some skills bu he just never filled the void left by Boozer. That void still won't be filled until the offseason maybe but at least we have a few guys that can play a smart game of basketball which will help in the playoffs. I wish Drew well, I always liked the guy since he was with Orlando. I thought he would have made more progress by now though based on what I had seen out of him his first few seasons.

 

[Wally World]

He played bad at the end of the game...Also he missed all shoots....