make a run at Bibby?

[TruBuckeye22]

looking at the standings it seems the Kings are a sinking ship, and from what i am reading they are looking to move Peja for sure. maybe the Cavs could get Bibby if they go into a total rebuild mode. might have to wait for the season to end but i would say it is worth looking into.

 

[G-MAN]

i think it would be a really good match. it has some validity too. maybe wishful thinking. pray for sactown to keep doing badly and we might have some hope.

he's a big shot maker too.

 

[LyXo]

The shooter, slasher, and distributor we need on offense. On defense? Perhaps better than others. But the Cavs have always needed a PG that is able to dish out more than 6 assists a game.. haven't quite seen it yet.

 

[KI4MVP]

no we don't need a 6 assist PG. What we need once we get the defense down is to implement the triangle on offense. Our personnel is very close to the team the bulls won their first 3peat with in terms of players strengths and players roles.

Cartright -> Z
Grant -> Drew
Jordan -> LeBron
Pippen -> Hughes
BJ Amrstrong->Snow

Paxson->Damon Jones
Stacey King-> Marshall

I think most of those are pretty reasonable.

 

[TruBuckeye22]

The shooter, slasher, and distributor we need on offense. On defense? Perhaps better than others. But the Cavs have always needed a PG that is able to dish out more than 6 assists a game.. haven't quite seen it yet.

i don't think it is a case of he can't do it, i just don't think he is asked to get more then 6 assists per. if you look at the Kings offense it is designed to run throught the high post so guys like Webber, Miller, or whoever are there take their share of assists.

and to tell you the truth i don't know if there is any PG guard that is going to come into Cleveland and put up huge assist numbers. when you have James and a healthy Hughes with the ball as much as they have it PG assists go down. to me it is more important to have a guy who can get into the lane and dish as well as hit a open shot.

 

[The George]

what could we give them that they would be interested in??

 

[PIP]

no we don't need a 6 assist PG. What we need once we get the defense down is to implement the triangle on offense. Our personnel is very close to the team the bulls won their first 3peat with in terms of players strengths and players roles.

Cartright -> Z
Grant -> Drew
Jordan -> LeBron
Pippen -> Hughes
BJ Amrstrong->Snow

Paxson->Damon Jones
Stacey King-> Marshall

I think most of those are pretty reasonable.

Damnit LJ4MVP... Do not do this..We are not even close to those teams..That is such a ridiculous statement..

WE WILL NOT REACH THE BULLS LEVEL OF DEFENSE....

Jordan and Pippen were all NBA defenders... I could not care any less about your stats of our recent defensive improvement in the last 10 games, or any of those digits you pull out. LeBron James is light years away from being Jordan at that end of the court... Hughes, was not on his all nba defensive pace this year...SO NO, they are not the second coming of Jordan and Pippen.. That is just stupid..

Jordan > LeBron
Pippen > Hughes

Horace Grant was a GREAT interior defender and averaged a double double or slightly under during that 3 peat...

Drew Gooden does not even play defense... He is one of the worst interior defenders I have ever seen in my life...

Horace Grant > Drew Gooden

B.J armstrong was so much better then Snow.. I can't even believe you said Snow is our Armstrong...LMAO!!! The first year of the Bulls 3-peat, Armstrong shot .500 from 3pt range... Snow is a pathetic offensive player.. Not to mention, Armstrong was just as good of a defender as Snow (maybe a better one)

B.J Armstrong > Snow

Cartwright was not as talented as Z offensively, but he was a much better defender and didn't get in stupid foul trouble like Z does..But I will give Z the nod.

Z > Cartwright

Paxson > Damon (NEXT)

Marshall > King

I can't even believe I spent time on this... The Bulls won 61 games during the first year of the 3peat, followed up by 67, then 57

The Cavs will be lucky to sniff 50 (real lucky)

You're right, the resemblance to those Bulls 1st 3 championships is striking. All we need is the triangle and we are on our way.. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight :chuckles:

Somebody should get Scott Williams on here, so we can ask him that question..

We are no way near the Bulls of the first 3 peat.. Triangle, or no Triangle.

 

[MarkPrice25]

Great post LePip! Comparing us to those teams right now is completely ludicrous. I've said it repeatedly before that the current brand of NBA basketball is garbage compared to 15 years ago. The early '90's Cavs teams that couldn't get by the Bulls would win 65 games in today's league. Why you ask? Because they played FUNDAMENTAL basketball on both ends of the court, had 3 All-Stars, and COULD SHOOT. The "great" Pistons and Spurs teams are merely throwbacks. Please don't ever compare the current Cavs team to arguably the greatest NBA dynasty since the old Celtics. Don't even talk to me about the Kobe/Shaq Lakers either.

I will, however, disagree that we would be "lucky" to sniff 50 this season. If we just play .500 ball over the next 24 without Hughes (hypothetically), that puts us on a 48-win pace with a month to go WITH HUGHES BACK IN THE LINE-UP. Remember, this was still a +.500 team without Larry last year (including the complete collapse) and, even though they are playing poorly right now, Jones and Marshall make us a better team than last year's. Unless we completely fall apart or major injuries hit, this team is going to be anywhere from 48-54 wins.

 

[KI4MVP]

you missed my point entirely. I never said we had as good of players in each position, I said

Our personnel is very close to the team the bulls won their first 3peat with in terms of players strengths and players roles.

And said so specifically in the context of playing the triangle on offense. I never said we'd win a championship the first year of the triangle. The Bulls didn't win their first year either - they won 55 games.

In terms of roles on offense, the only stretch is BJ vs Snow. Harper is the better equivalent to snow in being the PG in the triangle. But the point is specifically the triangle is a highly successful offense that doesn't require many points or assists from the PG. And the strengths of our personnel with a healthy Hughes lends itself quite well to the triangle. Extremely well actually.

And we darn well can play bulls level defense. When the bulls won their first title, they were about the 5th best defense in the league. We've played at around that level the past 12 games and Mike Brown can get more out of this team defensively.

Implement the triangle on offense, which will be at least as much work as it took to get the defense going, and watch out. This team (when healthy) will be hard to beat. We may not win it all this year - but the bulls didn't either - they put the system in place on both ends of the court and let guys get confidence playing with the system and with each other.

 

[ootbttnlagitnbasf]

uhhhhh.... did you watch the bulls that first year? the way i remember it, they took the defending champion pistons and swept them in four straight games, embarassing the pistons so badly that the pistons walked off the court before the fourth game was over so they would not have to shake hands.

and then the bulls went home to wait for the west to come up with an opponent for them, which turned out to be the lakers making the finals for the third straight season.

the lakers win game one in chicago when the bulls are a bit rusty and sam perkins burries a three at the buzzer. the bulls apply the defensive clamp and win the next four without any problems. the bulls put their small forward on magic johnson and shut down magic. magic could hardly get a shot off. and when the lakers tried to double jordan, the bulls brought in paxson and hansen who both shot better than anyone on our team has ever shot in their career. they got great games out of levingston and our own scott williams, who was like their tenth man.

those bulls had jordan and pipen defending the perimeter. more importantly, they had cartwright and grant defending the paint. we don't have any defenders that are half as good as either of those pair. we have ilgauskas and gooden? we have hughes and james?

plus, before the bulls won, they had their core playing together for several years. not two or three years, but several. it takes time for a team to learn how to win as a team. the bulls went to the eastern conference finals two straight years and lost before getting over the hump. let's do that before we start making rediculous comparisions. let's even make it to the playoffs before we start making rediculous claims.

lepip, i bow to your understanding and wisdom.

 

[NarlCavs]

Bibby would be a nice fit offensively. He can play both with the ball and without it and would give the Cavs a good shooter with 3 point range at PG. I think he could play well offensively with LeBron and Hughes.

The problem would be at the defensive end. Bibby is not a great defender and will have trouble with quicker G's.
I would take Bibby since he'd be a major upgrade at PG. Not sure if the Cavs have the parts to be able to acquire him though. It would take the Kings making the decision to start a major rebuilding project for it to be even a slight possibility.

 

[PIP]

uhhhhh.... did you watch the bulls that first year? the way i remember it, they took the defending champion pistons and swept them in four straight games, embarassing the pistons so badly that the pistons walked off the court before the fourth game was over so they would not have to shake hands.

and then the bulls went home to wait for the west to come up with an opponent for them, which turned out to be the lakers making the finals for the third straight season.

the lakers win game one in chicago when the bulls are a bit rusty and sam perkins burries a three at the buzzer. the bulls apply the defensive clamp and win the next four without any problems. the bulls put their small forward on magic johnson and shut down magic. magic could hardly get a shot off. and when the lakers tried to double jordan, the bulls brought in paxson and hansen who both shot better than anyone on our team has ever shot in their career. they got great games out of levingston and our own scott williams, who was like their tenth man.

those bulls had jordan and pipen defending the perimeter. more importantly, they had cartwright and grant defending the paint. we don't have any defenders that are half as good as either of those pair. we have ilgauskas and gooden? we have hughes and james?

plus, before the bulls won, they had their core playing together for several years. not two or three years, but several. it takes time for a team to learn how to win as a team. the bulls went to the eastern conference finals two straight years and lost before getting over the hump. let's do that before we start making rediculous comparisions. let's even make it to the playoffs before we start making rediculous claims.

lepip, i bow to your understanding and wisdom.

Excellent memory... The Bulls would rip us apart... Even if we played the same triangle type of offense...

Our offense ( with the lack of intelligence our players actually have, would most likely not be capable of learning the triangle) It is an offense that is post related with constant motion... Drew and Z would absolutely fail at this miserably... Plus, Snow cannot hit the outside shot like Armstrong, Kerr, Harper, Brown ect.... And we all know what we would be lacking if we put Damon in there for outside shooting in that offense... Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Our personel is not conducive for that offense..

Now, LJ4MVP, I am not coming down hard on you.(I understand your concept).. In fact, if you look at the Marco Jaric thread from the summer, you will clearly see where I bought up the scenario where we could have the personel for a team like the Bulls last 3 peat...

A tall 3 guard lineup of Jaric, Hughes, James... Albeit not as good as Harper, Jordan, Pippen... But, with a taller defender and better outside shooter in Jaric, I thought he could play the Harper role better then anyone else could in that style of offense...

I proposed this with a year of improvment from our core 3 in that starting lineup...
Z
AV (Rodman like energy and rebounding, all the while improving his offense)
Bron
Hughes (Playing the pip role defensively, handling the ball and providing 18pts 5rbs 5ast
Jaric (Harper like player. Solid defender 'a tad slow,' can hit the outside shot)


In my opinion, this would be better because of the tall guards (Phil Jackson loves those) it would cause a mismatch on both ends of the floor...

lepip, i bow to your understanding and wisdom

Get in line buddy..... :chuckles:

J/K, thanks for the compliment...

 

[Pioneer10]

We have nothing to give the Kings for Bibby. Gooden is our only tradeable assest and the Kings would be literally clearing there roster if they go for that as they already have SAR and Kenny Thomas at that position

 

[CleveRocks]

Bibby is an 11-14 million dollar man signed until 2009. He will not be our point guard in the foreseable.

 

[KI4MVP]

we don't have to play the Jordan Bulls so it's irrelevant if they would rip us apart or not. Again, the point is that we have the personnel to run the triangle and we don't need a 6+ assist PG to be successful. OUr defense is coming around, the triangle is an offense that would be effective with the personnel we have. To get to a championship level, we keep the coach, system and most players in place, upgrading where we can with the MLE. But really, to be successful, we only replace a player or at most two per year. Keep the stability and we will be contenders.