NASA may have incidentally discovered Warp Drive?

[Otsego Mar]

I have to admit I'm interested in science, etc. I simply don't have the knowledge about this stuff to hold a good conversation. But I tell ya, this speed stuff and what we have actually done to date is amazing stuff. I'll be dead when it happens, but I see a time when we can get to Mars in 2 weeks and do it freely and easily.

I'm wondering what the brains like gour think about this though; how do we really know for sure we all are not just a simple software program being played by some alien kid for his pleasure?

I believe the technology exists now - and had existed at some time previously (i.e. ancient times). The technology available to the public is nowhere near what is being utilized in secret - I have zero doubt about that.

As for the software thing - I'm right with you. All interesting things to ponder.

 

[PIP]

I'm the person on the board that @gourimoko thinks is second least racist, so I feel I should easily bypass Max as next on the totem pole here.

Plus, I really liked Interstellar.

Um I have a black wife.... So.........

 

[macbdog]

Completely related- did you all know they were making a sequel to Independence Day?

 

[KB]

If anyone wants to read more about this here is a write up by the site nasa spaceflight

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/

In the article you will also find a link to forums where one of the engineers from the actual project is communicating with the members.

Link to the forum thread

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36313.0

 

[Huber.]

Completely related- did you all know they were making a sequel to Independence Day?

Yeah too bad Randy Quaid won't be in that as an alien or the new "Vacation" movie either for that matter.

 

[ssopata]

Or that we're living inside of a blackhole about to collapse, or that reality is a specialized holopgraphic virtual reality, or that life and death are illusions and consciousness is derived somewhere outside of space/time, or that this life is really the "life flashing before our eyes" and we're already dead?

 

[MikeOC33]

Just think if what we actually think is real is not really real? What if we were in a small ball, and some other thing was holding us and playing with us? Like bouncing us against a wall or the floor, and even maybe throwing us through a hoop?

Well, if that really is the reality... then someone is probably gonna get a dislocated shoulder injury, and we are all gonna be screwed then.

DAMN YOU KELLY OLYNYK! DAMN YOU.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

If this is legit why isn't it being talked about more?

I'm pretty interested to hear more about this.

Because Bruce Jenner says he's a woman, now THAT shit is groundbreaking

Seriously though, this is awesome. I'm glad there are still people out there who care about the advancement of our species. I fully believe we will have an intergalactic presence at some point, assuming we don't destroy ourselves first.

 

[gourimoko]

Just think if what we actually think is real is not really real? What if we were in a small ball, and some other thing was holding us and playing with us? Like bouncing us against a wall or the floor, and even maybe throwing us through a hoop?

Holographic principle.

We could be in a ball contained by the edges of an event horizon, where in all of the information (events) happening inside are visible along it's surface. Our "ball" (universe) could exist in a superposition of states encompassing all possibilities within it's own n(3?)+1 space-time.

"Outside" of our ball could be many, many others; each one with it's own unique laws of physics, and each one with it's own properties and variations.

This isn't an unpopular theory either -- I'd go so far to say that, as of right now, the plurality of scientists would probably gamble that this is an accurate representation of our cosmos.

 

[DougHeil]

Holographic principle.

We could be in a ball contained by the edges of an event horizon, where in all of the information (events) happening inside are visible along it's surface. Our "ball" (universe) could exist in a superposition of states encompassing all possibilities within it's own n(3?)+1 space-time.

"Outside" of our ball could be many, many others; each one with it's own unique laws of physics, and each one with it's own properties and variations.

This isn't an unpopular theory either -- I'd go so far to say that, as of right now, the plurality of scientists would probably gamble that this is an accurate representation of our cosmos.

Mind-boggling.

 

[gourimoko]

If this is legit why isn't it being talked about more?

Greed...

Not what you were expecting me to say, huh?

Look, I come from a certain school of physics and cosmology, centered around very strict mathematical interpretations of the universe. So when I say I'm skeptical of Harold White's research, I'm saying that I'm skeptical of the math, the theory behind it; as there is so little foundation to his theories.

To give you an idea, imagine if @Lord Mar , this whole time, turned out to be right about his views on science.... and in him being right, I was obviously wrong. Yet I was viewed by my peers as being the more credible and learned person, the better mathematician (White's not a math guy at all), etc etc... How would I feel?

Well, me personally, I'd feel great actually - but most people, especially PhD's who've spent decades researching their own theories or their favorite theories and were proven wrong. PhD's who went and put their reputation on the line before review boards to get grant money for their research, would now need to say "welp, we were all totally completely 100% wrong, about .. well .. everything."

That's how revolutionary this work would be, if it turned out to be true.

Leaving the hypothetical, Sean Carroll is one of the leading voices against NASA funding these warp drive and EM Drive research programs. Carroll's views are very similar to my own, and we share a very similar outlook on cosmology. In fact, his theory of the universe is very similar to one that I worked on during my collegiate years (based on cosmic/eternal inflation).

So guys like this are very highly respected, and guys like White, well, are sometimes looked at as "fringe" scientists. I feel bad for Harold White to be honest because of this. I hope I'm wrong, I hope Dr. Carroll is wrong. But that isn't likely I think. But if we are, then White will go down as the greatest scientist and engineer (he's more applied than theoretical) of the 21st century, and none of the guys competing for funds today will be listened to anymore.

Hope it makes sense, but there's limited grant money, limited notoriety, and limited speaking events available. Greed is the primary factor behind people looking to completely discredit Harold White.

I'm pretty interested to hear more about this.

Again, right now, I remain extremely skeptical.

These theories, again, from my school of reasoning, make little mathematical sense. Simply put... the math isn't there. But the physics might be.. For many of us that come from a math-first background, well, that's a tough pill to swallow.

If this works, we really don't know how or why. We can give you explanations that seem to make rational sense, but not necessarily describe these theories mathematically.

 

[gourimoko]

I'm wondering what the brains like gour think about this though; how do we really know for sure we all are not just a simple software program being played by some alien kid for his pleasure?

We don't know, and we might not ever know.

As odd as it sounds, there has been much work done to determine whether or not this is the case. The reason we question this now is because we are likely to reach a point with quantum computers where we could simulate a universe of our own, especially with a mathematically complete understanding of a theory of everything like string theory.

The origin of the issue really began with quantum information theory which extended our general understanding of information theory into what we would consider the real world. Now, information was considered equivalent to matter and energy, and thus, followed the exact same laws of the universe including conservation, special relativity, etc. Since information was now looked at in a quantum (discrete) way, and since we came to the conclusion that our 3+1 dimensional space could just as easily be a 2+1 dimensional area (like the surface of a hard drive), then folks really started to wonder.

There's even been numerous lectures by James Gates (a SUSY string theorist) who believes the math includes what amounts to error correcting code.

Now, I don't believe any of that, personally.. But I can't say it's true or false, it's an active field of research. However, I do admit that there are numerous cases of the universe exhibiting the kind of self-consistency limitations that you might expect in a simulation. Some of which include, event horizons, no-hair, chronology protection conjecture, no naked singularities, the lack of monopoles, the absence of large quantities of anti-matter, the Fermi Paradox (from a human perspective this is great).

Again, I'm of the mind that all of this can be explained without the simulation hypothesis, and in a much more elegant way, but... again, others aren't.

 

[DougHeil]

hmm. If you don't know and might not ever know,... is it safe to say if our universe was being controlled inside a software program of some 14 year old alien, that alien kid would only allow us to do research to find out the real truth to a certain point only, right? He/she/it would be the sole dictator of what we actually found out or even researched considering it's his/her/it's software program.

My goodness; I'm gaining an added admiration for all of those scientists out there who make this stuff their entire careers, and who may be researching things to only find out 30-40 years later they were entirely and totally wrong. wow.

 

[gourimoko]

hmm. If you don't know and might not ever know,... is it safe to say if our universe was being controlled inside a software program of some 14 year old alien, that alien kid would only allow us to do research to find out the real truth to a certain point only, right? He/she/it would be the sole dictator of what we actually found out or even researched considering it's his/her/it's software program.

I try not to venture too far into what isn't falsifiable. In your instance, for all practical purposes, that 14-year old would be called 'God' by most people. I'm not touching that with a 10-ft pole.

Again, I think science and math explains the universe - entirely. I have never found a need to evoke a deity or some other being to explain anything in nature. I am not an atheist by the way, but I completely separate religion from science.

With that said, if such a being exists, awesome, but I don't know if we in the scientific community are qualified to say one way or the other.

My goodness; I'm gaining an added admiration for all of those scientists out there who make this stuff their entire careers, and who may be researching things to only find out 30-40 years later they were entirely and totally wrong. wow.

Definitely.

 

[Otsego Mar]

The only problem I see with that theory gour, is that science and math - as complete and refined as they may seem - are human inventions. The physics formulas we have are all being used to try and figure out this theory of everything, and they may not even apply to places outside of our known universe.