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Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class

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Is it true she recorded in a West End Town?
With East End boys.

In all seriousness, if after 40 years people haven't heard the masterpiece she made with PSB, they need to.

Amazing duet. Huge hit on both sides of the Pond.

The songs off her album that followed the career boost of What Have I Done to Deserve This were also quite good. In Private is great.

What a voice.

It is a nice feather in her cap after being the wilderness for so long. It is a pity she passed from cancer as her career was catching its second wind.



 
You don't have to write songs or play an instrument, but you need to be a hell of a singer if not, if you want the Hall of Fame acknowledgement.

Elvis wrote very little but played on most of the stuff that made his name. And he was a terrific singer.
Fair points.

I didn't point to any others who aren't in, so your Call to Omission argument is bizarre. I pointed to Spinal Tap and Milli more so due to the fact they were also manufactured bands, stand ins for creators to get their ideas across. Musically, visually, or comically.

You said: If nobody deserves the honor more than the Monkees, then it's time to stop.

This heavily infers that there are a number of more deserving groups than the Monkees, that should be inducted before them. Whether explicit or not, it is an implication of a Call to Omission.

And a clichéd generational argument? You're better than that.

I was not making a generational argument. I expressly stated:

Interestingly enough, I have seen that this argument is decades old, and tends to fracture based on generation. Baby Boomers really do not support the idea of the Monkees in the HoF and are personally insulted by the very notion. Millennials don't see to understand the distinction, having grown up with many manufactured acts.

I made it clear I am noting the argument of others, not my argument. There is a reason I prefaced the statement.

However, perhaps it is an argument that should be discussed even more as a proximate cause of why the Monkees aren't even considered given that Jann Wenner, long accused of being THE Boomer Gatekeeper on the HoF induction committee, has allegedly, and infamously, blacklisted the Monkees and threatened to blacklist anyone who votes for them.

But for Jann Wenner, would there still be a chill on even considering their induction by voting?
 
Firstly, comparing them to Milli Vanilli is a specious argument. They lip-synced. Spinal Tap is a fictitious band. But it is a humorous aside.

To the substance of your position:

I find the argument dubious based on the inconsistency of the goal posts:

1) Is it a requirement for artists to author their own songs? No. Many artists in the HoF have not, or mostly didn't.

2) Is it a requirement for the artists to have played the instruments for their songs on the album? No. Again, various artists in the HoF did not, or don't even play instruments.

3) The pointing to other artists who aren't in is a Call to Omission, a logical fallacy as it isn't relevant as a particular argument.

Off of the top of my head, Elvis neither wrote the vast majority of his songs, and he didn't play instruments either on most of them either. Especially post 1968, Elvis rarely attended the recording sessions with other artists. He laid down vocals and that is it. His old backing band wasn't even with him anymore. Session artists laid down the instruments.

Another artist held in great esteem, including by me, Dusty Springfield.

She neither wrote her songs nor played instruments.

Her last two hit albums were completely written, produced, arranged and instrumentality played for her by Pet Shop Boys.

She is seen as a legend and is amazing.

There are a number more of artists like this.

Interestingly enough, I have seen that this argument is decades old, and tends to fracture based on generation.

Baby Boomers really do not support the idea of the Monkees in the HoF and are personally insulted by the very notion. Millennials don't see to understand the distinction, having grown up with many manufactured acts.

you made a better argument than I expected. As someone who grew up watching their show, I was of the opinion they aren't hall of fame worthy because they were a manufactured band who didn't write their own songs or play their own instruments. Although the latter part changed a bit after their first two albums. But you makes some good points.

A couple of counterpoints.

Elvis is in the hall of fame for his pre 1968 music, where he was more involved. So that's more relevant than what he did after that.

And there is probably a distinction between being in the hall of fame as a singer vs getting in as a band. It should be more expected that a band is writing songs, playing instruments.

Milli Vanili is such a strange story to me. The manager got people to lip sync the songs because he thought the real musicians didn't have the right look and the public was too shallow to like it if they knew what they really looked like. People loved the songs, they won a grammy and other awards, Then people found out the people on the cover of the album weren't the actual singers. So everyone proved to be as shallow as the manager thought and decided they no longer liked the music. Music that went 6x platinum suddenly didn't sound good with a different face.
 
The current Rock Hall of Fame nominees, in order of their current fan vote totals as of 3:25 p.m. on Tuesday, March 26, are:

The Dave Matthews Band (386,902)

Foreigner (343,346),

Peter Frampton (340,078),

Ozzy Osbourne (339,368)

Cher (236,443)

Lenny Kravitz (212,026)

Kool & the Gang (189,350)

Mariah Carey (189,336)

Oasis (124,442)

Sinéad O’Connor (117,204)

Sade (114,045)

Jane’s Addiction (100,485)

Mary J. Blige (82,636)

A Tribe Called Quest (65,450)

Eric B. & Rakim (40,379).
 
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Reaction videos are great.

For those of us without kids, it allows to see what people think when exposed to classic songs, as well as people who wouldn't normally listen to certain genres.

For INXS, it is proof that Michael Hutchence can still turn women into puddles decades after he passed away.

These women were instantly mesmerized by him. The first one says she needed her knee pads and had to fan herself for "Never Tear Us Apart."

Also, one cannot appreciate why this video won the MTV Moonman. It is a rather simple video, but conveys the vibe of the song.

Hutchence emerges from the shadows, with a rat crawling up his arm, like a vampire. It is amazing, except for that unfortunate .5 seconds of one of the Ferris brothers looking like he sharted himself.





 
I forgot how much I dislike corporate rock of the 70s through the invention of Limewire.

There are music acts out there who did something organic. Those are the folk I believe should be in the HOF. The Beatles, Ramones, Velvet Underground, Tom Waits, Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five, and plenty of others changed the landscape of music. That should get the most cred, in my opinion.

So when a band like Foreigner looks like they will get in, it chaffs my curvy thighs. My Karen Inside can't stand it. Jethro Tull is still not in and yet we are going to get bands like Foreigner in.. who were assembled by a record company and had a team of people dictating everything about their career, including ten or so outside people writing each song.

The Karen Inside... The Karen Inside...
Every single one of us, The Karen Inside...
 
I forgot how much I dislike corporate rock of the 70s through the invention of Limewire.

There are music acts out there who did something organic. Those are the folk I believe should be in the HOF. The Beatles, Ramones, Velvet Underground, Tom Waits, Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five, and plenty of others changed the landscape of music. That should get the most cred, in my opinion.

So when a band like Foreigner looks like they will get in, it chaffs my curvy thighs. My Karen Inside can't stand it. Jethro Tull is still not in and yet we are going to get bands like Foreigner in.. who were assembled by a record company and had a team of people dictating everything about their career, including ten or so outside people writing each song.

The Karen Inside... The Karen Inside...
Every single one of us, The Karen Inside...

The truth is that applies to an awful lot of pop acts in particular, and a fair number of rock ones. How many acts truly are a combination of looks/flash, mediocre voice, plus someone else writing their songs?

Not a huge fan of Foreignor, and their sound is pretty derivative. But they did write most of their own songs. Part of their problem was that Mick Jones wanted to crank out those radio-friendly hits, and rejected ideas by the other guys to be a bit more adventurous. He kept booting other guys until the band was basically just him writing the same schlock.
 
I forgot how much I dislike corporate rock of the 70s through the invention of Limewire.

There are music acts out there who did something organic. Those are the folk I believe should be in the HOF. The Beatles, Ramones, Velvet Underground, Tom Waits, Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five, and plenty of others changed the landscape of music. That should get the most cred, in my opinion.

So when a band like Foreigner looks like they will get in, it chaffs my curvy thighs. My Karen Inside can't stand it. Jethro Tull is still not in and yet we are going to get bands like Foreigner in.. who were assembled by a record company and had a team of people dictating everything about their career, including ten or so outside people writing each song.

The Karen Inside... The Karen Inside...
Every single one of us, The Karen Inside...
The truth is that applies to an awful lot of pop acts in particular, and a fair number of rock ones. How many acts truly are a combination of looks/flash, mediocre voice, plus someone else writing their songs?

Not a huge fan of Foreignor, and their sound is pretty derivative. But they did write most of their own songs. Part of their problem was that Mick Jones wanted to crank out those radio-friendly hits, and rejected ideas by the other guys to be a bit more adventurous. He kept booting other guys until the band was basically just him writing the same schlock.
They put out a lot of hits, but only within a ten year period where they exhibited anything but what one might call a unique sound, or any pretense of evolution outside adhering to changing established trends of the time.

Wholly derivative.

Arena rock without any real soul or even gimmick.

They are like the king of the Mid-Card in wrestling parlance.

Solid workers, but nothing memorable.

Perhaps premium derivative, but derivative nonetheless.
 
10cc... Should be in the HoF... Not huge hit makers, but their entire body of work is extensive in a multitude of ways.
 
I’ve been following Foreigner on tour for the last 5 years and did the same back in the mid-2000s.

None of the same guys are in the band, but I can still sing every word.
 
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I forgot how much I dislike corporate rock of the 70s through the invention of Limewire.

There are music acts out there who did something organic. Those are the folk I believe should be in the HOF. The Beatles, Ramones, Velvet Underground, Tom Waits, Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five, and plenty of others changed the landscape of music. That should get the most cred, in my opinion.

So when a band like Foreigner looks like they will get in, it chaffs my curvy thighs. My Karen Inside can't stand it. Jethro Tull is still not in and yet we are going to get bands like Foreigner in.. who were assembled by a record company and had a team of people dictating everything about their career, including ten or so outside people writing each song.

The Karen Inside... The Karen Inside...
Every single one of us, The Karen Inside...

How about a group like Heart who had some fantastic hits as themselves, ie wrote and had creative control like Magic Man and Barracuda, then on cooperate music forced them into songs they didnt write or produce like Alone, All I want to do, Crazy on you, ect.

I liked their heavily produced stuff, but probably because of the amazing voice of Ann Wilson who I think has a top 5 all time female rock voice.
 
It sounds like time for me to go on a R&R HOF nomination rant. I'm thrilled RCF is the unofficial home of Clevelanders who are way too competitive about the Rock Hall. I bring some of this up with peers in California and they are only slightly aware the Rock Hall exists.

So to start my rant, last year had a fantastic class and great nominations. I respect that if you get nominated, you have to sit out a year. I'd happily lobby for Joy Division/New Order, Soundgarden, White Stripes and Warren Zevon to get in over most of the nominees this year. Those are some memorable rock acts.

I will make this rant hyper-competitive in format because of it.

Rap category: I think Tribe Called Quest gets in while Eric B. and Rakim have to wait. Tribe are the only nominees to carry over from 2023, just like Kate Bush had two in a row in 2022 and 2023. In other words, they know they fucked up.

Time is Ticking Category: Ozzy Osborne and Cher get in, Sinead O'Conner is out. This matches up with Ozzy's farewell tour in 2024. Sometimes you can tell who is in by tracking upcoming concert tours. Cher announced that she recorded new music, and like Tina Turner & Stevie Nicks she deserves to be in without her former partner. O'Conner has the nostalgia but not the legion of fans or cred. She's in the happy to be nominated category.

Pop Diva Category: We can argue this shouldn't be a category, but the committee keeps letting at least one per year in ever since the ownership change. I have Mary J. Blige definitely in, Mariah Carey as a 50/50, Sade is out. Mary J Blige is a national treasure for the more soulful side of hip hop, really one of the no-brainers here. Her version of U2's One is a great crossover. Will they double down with Mariah in the same year? I just don't know, and I hope they save Mariah for another year. Sade is just to slow, jazzy and not at all rock and roll to topple the other two.

For fun, here's a great rock cover of Mary J. Blige's Real Love:


Rock and Roll Lives Category: I have Dave Matthews Band and Lenny Kravitz in, and Foreigner as a 50/50. The DMB checks a lot of boxes, but had to wait their turn. They flat out destroyed a fan poll one year and then didn't get in. They represent a great diversity of influence, membership and fan base. You can say the same for Lenny. Some people thought Lenny was stuck in the 70s in his first two albums but then he pushed boundaries to really become an influencer. Now he's semi-retired but can dust it off whenever he wants. Maybe I am a little biased since I attended concerts for both, fully knowing they were chick approved rockers.

Foreigner is a first time nominee for a reason. They sold a ton of albums but don't carry a flag for industry respect. I've said it before in this thread, but they were hired guns assembled by a record company with almost no back story to latch onto, and when their hired gun keyboardist Thomas Dolby left, a lot of the creative force left with him. They will make it in someday just because of records sold and memorable ear worms.

So that means Peter Frampton, Oasis, Jane's Addiction, and Kool and the Gang are on the outs for me. I see Frampton has done a lot of guest duets in high profile places in the past year, including playing with Cheryl Crow in the last HOF Induction ceremony. He's still talented, but he had one great album in 1976 and has just been a nice British bloke who can wail outside of that album. He's an underdog this year because of it. Kool and the Gang are so much fun live, go see them. That said, they had one mega hit and a few solid songs. I want them in eventually, but I place a few acts above them this year. On the other hand, Oasis makes no sense to me, there are great British bands who got screwed in the past... but this group had one album and became obnoxious. Jane's Addiction had two good albums from the late 80s LA scene and then became influential behind the scenes and as B list celebrities. It doesn't feel like the right time for a group like that.

Almost 100% I swapped Lenny and Kool & the Gang. Happy with the results... but how did they backdoor Jimmy Buffett in? He's influenced a lot of people to drink heavily and song along but he didn't really have monster hits or a huge influence on music. That was out of nowhere.
 
Reaction videos are great.

For those of us without kids, it allows to see what people think when exposed to classic songs, as well as people who wouldn't normally listen to certain genres.

For INXS, it is proof that Michael Hutchence can still turn women into puddles decades after he passed away.

These women were instantly mesmerized by him. The first one says she needed her knee pads and had to fan herself for "Never Tear Us Apart."

Also, one cannot appreciate why this video won the MTV Moonman. It is a rather simple video, but conveys the vibe of the song.

Hutchence emerges from the shadows, with a rat crawling up his arm, like a vampire. It is amazing, except for that unfortunate .5 seconds of one of the Ferris brothers looking like he sharted himself.







Thanks for posting this, it really took me back. I love all music, truth be told, i preffer 90's rap t o almost anything. However I tell my friends the Depeche mode album Violater saved my life. I was in my teens ready to eat a gun, hit a tree in my truck at 100 mph. Ill never forget the first time I heard Enjoy the silence. Truth is, it saved me twice, my wife told me she wanted a divorce before a trip with her family in 2007. I told her all the ways I would change and at the same time I loaded this album on her mp3 player with out her knowing. When she came back from a week in Florida she gave me a second chance. (| making a really long story short) in 2019 I asked her why she decided to give me that second chance, she swears it was the Violater album, she said it made her see me in a different light. Depression sucks!!!!! I love INXS, it was my gateway to Depeche Mode. Enjoy the silence, world in my eyes, enjoy the silence, sweetest perfection and personal jesus.

Damn.
 
Thanks for posting this, it really took me back. I love all music, truth be told, i preffer 90's rap t o almost anything. However I tell my friends the Depeche mode album Violater saved my life. I was in my teens ready to eat a gun, hit a tree in my truck at 100 mph. Ill never forget the first time I heard Enjoy the silence. Truth is, it saved me twice, my wife told me she wanted a divorce before a trip with her family in 2007. I told her all the ways I would change and at the same time I loaded this album on her mp3 player with out her knowing. When she came back from a week in Florida she gave me a second chance. (| making a really long story short) in 2019 I asked her why she decided to give me that second chance, she swears it was the Violater album, she said it made her see me in a different light. Depression sucks!!!!! I love INXS, it was my gateway to Depeche Mode. Enjoy the silence, world in my eyes, enjoy the silence, sweetest perfection and personal jesus.

Damn.
Holy shit!

Wow, thank God for Depeche Mode then!

Enjoy the Silence is a GOAT song.

They still have it too, they had a great appearance on Letterman that is on YouTube:

 

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