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Shootouts and explosions in Paris

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Not that I disagree with the article, but, it's always important to consider the source:

In July 2008, while investigators for the House Oversight Committee were looking into the death of Pat Tillman, they uncovered a 2004 email from Fournier to Karl Rove encouraging him to "keep up the fight."[5]

On August 23, 2008, following U.S. Senator and presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama's announcement of his selection of Senator Joe Biden as a running mate, Fournier wrote a widely circulated piece titled "Analysis: Biden pick shows lack of confidence".[6] A Washington Monthly columnist described the piece as "mirror[ing] the Republican line with minimal variation".[7] Editor & Publisher noted that Fournier's article "gained wide linkage at the Drudge Report, Hot Air and numerous other conservative sites...." and was targeted by MoveOn.org for alleged bias.[8]

In February 2013, Fournier wrote a column about breaking ties with a White House official after a pattern of "vulgarity, abusive language" and "veiled threat(s)", but did not identify the official due to his policy of granting blanket automatic anonymity to all his sources.[9] Fournier received some criticism from commentator Glenn Greenwald for behaving in a "petulant" manner and for his policy on anonymity for sources.[10]


Huh??? I get your M.O. of attacking the messenger and not the message. But on this one, why bother? You even said you don't disagree with the article. He quotes Obama's CIA Director and Pentagon Chief, Diane Feinstein, Obama's Drug Czar, and liberal Frank Bruni. He's not quoting ANY Republicans, only Democrats that are saying that Obama is failing to lead. I guess since it was an article that you agreed with you still had to say something to your followers to disparage it, so you went with the old "consider the source".

I'm going to start saying "consider the source" every time you post something political. After all, you did just admit last week that you were paid to lie for Democrats. :)
 
That was really obvious in those comments he made in his presser last Monday where he went after his critics. More passion than he showed when the attacks actually happened.

Without a doubt...and the whole world saw it. It was both bizarre and embarrassing. If i'm Hollande at the White House today, I'm asking Obama to channel the disgust and hatred he has for the GOP and turn it towards ISIS for a bit.
 
ISIS claiming responsibility for a bomb that blew up a Presidential guard bus in Tunisia killing at least 14 an hour ago...
 
Huh??? I get your M.O. of attacking the messenger and not the message. But on this one, why bother? You even said you don't disagree with the article. He quotes Obama's CIA Director and Pentagon Chief, Diane Feinstein, Obama's Drug Czar, and liberal Frank Bruni. He's not quoting ANY Republicans, only Democrats that are saying that Obama is failing to lead. I guess since it was an article that you agreed with you still had to say something to your followers to disparage it, so you went with the old "consider the source".

I'm going to start saying "consider the source" every time you post something political. After all, you did just admit last week that you were paid to lie for Democrats. :)

You cut me to the quick, Max.. :chuckle:

My only point is that the author takes the quotes out of context.

Frank Bruni's original article doesn't come to the same conclusion as the article posted; even though reading it you would think the two are in congruence.

Bruni's point is that Obama needs to establish a tough narrative that the Republicans (and many Democrats) can get behind - which doesn't make the argument that "he cannot lead." Instead, Bruni's point is that Obama is too cerebral, and could be over-complicating what is ultimately a simpler national security issue.

I tend to agree with some of this. Much of the narrative from the Administration to the American public has been very poorly worded to get one's message across. The Syrian/Iraqi "jobs" argument is a perfect example of a really awful message to push on Sunday talk - but in reality, is highly representative of the reality in the region. Much of ISIS' strength lies in the socioeconomic insecurity and lack of opportunity for those living in Syria and Iraq.

So, to the argument's of those quoted, yes, Obama lacks the ability to construct a cogent narrative on the issue, and I think, lacks a focused and actionable vision as to how to best solve the problems in the region using U.S. military power. I think Obama may feel the exercise of military force, particularly a ground invasion, would only be a temporary stopgap measure that might ultimately make the situation worse over time.

All in all though, as I said, I don't disagree with some of the points of the article, while others I do. To the point of the source, it is not a well sourced article because the quotes are largely taken out of context and in doing so, the author constructs an unfounded argument as his conclusion.
 
Huh? Our decision to go after Iraq in 2003 -an attack in which France did not participate - had absolutely nothing to do with NATO's efforts in Afghanistan beginning in 2001. And while our allies didn't have troops on the ground in Afghanistan week after 9/11, they already had publicly committed to do so, and fulfilled those commitments.

I was talking about Iraq, the country we attacked in supposed response to 9/11, but even in Afghanistan we weren't on the ground the next week. The fighting in Afghanistan didn't start until Oct 7th, nearly a month after 9/11. France didn't deploy troops in Afghanistan until Nov 17th, over 2 months after 9/11. You complained the US didn't already have ground troops fighting ISIS in response to the Paris attacks just 1 week after they happened.
 
You would think the economies in Iraq and Syria would be booming. The U.S. government has been bombing the fuck out of both of them for years, Iraq for decades. Ask any mainstream economist and that is a boon to the economy.
 
I wish I could get this kind of breakdown of credibility for all stories published. No sarcasm; it'd be refreshing to be able to vet the credibility prior to taking someone's word on just about everything.
 
This feels like it's coming to a head, and America isn't really sitting in a good position here. The Arab Spring overthrew some pro-US governments like Egypt, and has left us less stable in the middle East than we were 5 years ago, which is really saying something. There are no good options for us in Syria. Fighting ISIS is supporting Assad, and fighting Assad is supporting ISIS. We all know ISIS is the boogeyman, but Assad is a genocidal tyrant whom many of our staunchest allies are very much opposed to. The correct answer is supporting a 3rd party pro-US group of moderates. The problem? That doesn't really exist at the moment. Our other option? Treat this like Iraq, go in with boots and take control, and spend billions on training a police force and installing a stable democracy. Yet in a region even more unstable than Iraq and knowing how poorly that worked in Iraq, it's hard to believe the investment would be effective long term.

Whomever brought up WWIII earlier might really be on to something. There are so many significant foreign tensions, and with a Russia who wants to flex some muscle, a variety of extremist groups waging a religious war against all Western culture, and a bevvy of middle class citizens being displaced throughout many of the middle Eastern countries, it seems like something will have to come to a head. Will it be Iran and Israel who openly begin fighting, or Turkey and Russia? It doesn't seem like this is the type of tension that will just blow over, nor is ISIS the type of agency that can be eliminated by taking out the top officers: It's becoming a philosophy which isn't tied to any one charismatic individual (which arguably runs counter to Bin Laden's al-Qaeda).
 
Turkey shot down a Russian plane.

One of the world's most volatile regions was roiled further Tuesday when Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Turkish-Syrian border. Turkey said it hit the plane after it repeatedly violated Turkey's airspace and ignored 10 warnings.

Turkey and Russia exchanged bellicose language after the downing of the plane, raising fears in the international community that the brutal Syrian conflict could spiral into something much wider.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html
 

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