So long, David Griffin

[inliner311]

uh Sanders would of been fouled out in 5 minutes.
he wasn't ready for NBA speed. He needs more d league time or a full training camp.

You're most likely right, I don't know if a player would see it that way. He didn't get a 2nd chance to correct himself in the 2nd half. I guess we won't know the real reason why Sander was let go.

I hope Griff has learn from all this turnover. Being more active in free agency this summer would be a start. Take the chances on semi-proven NBA talent while the pool is big and work it from there. Try to be one of the teams that benefits if teams go on spending sprees again this summer, try to pick off a couple good players when dust settles and only minimum contracts are left.

 

[buzzdog]

I disagree with all the criticism that Griffin is getting. No matter what the fact still is that we're way over the cap, we pay a premium in tax for every dollar we spend.

Griffin has no choice other than to bring in players as they become available. He does get some leeway from Gilbert being willing to spend money but it is very obvious that Griffin has pledged to Gilbert that he will do what he can to minimize the tax hits. Hence, cutting Liggins when Lue finally figured out that Liggins wouldn't be utilized because he is too much of an offensive liability.

Bogut was the best option for a quality big man but Griffin HAD to wait until Bogut became available. That triggered the timeline with Sanders, then Tavares in a domino effect.

Is the timing of these roster moves ideal, no. Is it the only way these decisions could have happened, yes.

 

[shoes22]

I disagree with all the criticism that Griffin is getting. No matter what the fact still is that we're way over the cap, we pay a premium in tax for every dollar we spend.

Griffin has no choice other than to bring in players as they become available. He does get some leeway from Gilbert being willing to spend money but it is very obvious that Griffin has pledged to Gilbert that he will do what he can to minimize the tax hits. Hence, cutting Liggins when Lue finally figured out that Liggins wouldn't be utilized because he is too much of an offensive liability.

Bogut was the best option for a quality big man but Griffin HAD to wait until Bogut became available. That triggered the timeline with Sanders, then Tavares in a domino effect.

Is the timing of these roster moves ideal, no. Is it the only way these decisions could have happened, yes.

You’re giving Griffin credit for things that ended up being coincidences and other things that had nothing to do with him.

The fact that Bogut was made available and chose to sign here? Coincidence.

The fact that ownership is willing to blindly eat money? Fortunate for him.

The fact that Liggins was cut on the latest day possible? That actually cost Gilbert more money than if he had done it earlier. Liggins was out of Lue’s rotation a LOT longer than before Sunday.

Signing Sanders over Tavares once Bogut went down? The Celtics and at least 3 other teams had enough sense to realize Sanders couldn’t provide a NBA team anything for the foreseeable future. Apparently we couldn’t see the same thing.

If I’m being honest of my assessment of Griffin, I give him a C- this year. Passable because Korver looks like a hit, but signing Birdman was a mistake, as was waiting too long to address the backup PG position, and his tendency to fill the roster with one-way players with duplicated skill sets has shown problematic this year.

 

[inliner311]

I disagree with all the criticism that Griffin is getting. No matter what the fact still is that we're way over the cap, we pay a premium in tax for every dollar we spend.

Griffin has no choice other than to bring in players as they become available. He does get some leeway from Gilbert being willing to spend money but it is very obvious that Griffin has pledged to Gilbert that he will do what he can to minimize the tax hits. Hence, cutting Liggins when Lue finally figured out that Liggins wouldn't be utilized because he is too much of an offensive liability.

Bogut was the best option for a quality big man but Griffin HAD to wait until Bogut became available. That triggered the timeline with Sanders, then Tavares in a domino effect.

Is the timing of these roster moves ideal, no. Is it the only way these decisions could have happened, yes.

I think alot of us are not critical of the actual moves but Griff taking this wait and see approach. He talked about it on the Lowe post podcast. He waited and waited to make moves and didn't utilize 10 day contracts or go hard at free agents in the offseason.

They waited hoping for Bogut but in the time between the Korver deal and that, he could have thrown out a couple 10 day contracts, one possibly to Sanders. In that case we would have know he wasn't ready and moved on.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

If I’m being honest of my assessment of Griffin, I give him a C- this year. Passable because Korver looks like a hit, but signing Birdman was a mistake, as was waiting too long to address the backup PG position, and his tendency to fill the roster with one-way players with duplicated skill sets has shown problematic this year.

Eh, can't have one without the other. Korver MAY be a hit but make no mistake, he's certainly redundant.

 

[buzzdog]

You’re giving Griffin credit for things that ended up being coincidences and other things that had nothing to do with him.

The fact that Bogut was made available and chose to sign here? Coincidence.

The fact that ownership is willing to blindly eat money? Fortunate for him.

The fact that Liggins was cut on the latest day possible? That actually cost Gilbert more money than if he had done it earlier. Liggins was out of Lue’s rotation a LOT longer than before Sunday.

Signing Sanders over Tavares once Bogut went down? The Celtics and at least 3 other teams had enough sense to realize Sanders couldn’t provide a NBA team anything for the foreseeable future. Apparently we couldn’t see the same thing.

If I’m being honest of my assessment of Griffin, I give him a C- this year. Passable because Korver looks like a hit, but signing Birdman was a mistake, as was waiting too long to address the backup PG position, and his tendency to fill the roster with one-way players with duplicated skill sets has shown problematic this year.

What you call coincidence, I just call reality.

Are you saying Griff should not have waited to see if Bogut would become available? Are you saying Griff should not have signed Bogut? Would Bogut have been an option if, say, we signed Tavares 6 weeks ago? Then what, we sign Bogut, then re-sign Tavares when Bogut broke his leg?

As for Sanders, I don't care what the Celts or anyone else had to say, from what I saw in his limited time he was worth a look. I think TT's injury made it necessary to get someone with a little less rust like Tavares, but if TT was completely healthy we might have stuck with the plan for Sanders. As it is we'll just have to wait and see if Sanders is back for training camp and if this contract paved the way for him to make a complete comeback on a more realistic timeline.

Gilbert being willing to eat money isn't "fortunate" in some random way. It is the reality that Griffin is operating under. I don't understand how you can somehow penalize or take credit away from Griffin for operating within the parameters he is given?

I can agree that there are problems with Griff failing to address some of the roster holes earlier in the season like the hole left by Mo Williams and Birdman. These were exacerbated by the other injuries we had with base rotation players.

But the fact is a lot of the timing on getting quality replacements was dictated by the need to wait for people like Deron Williams and Andrew Bogut to become available. It required a lot of patience from Griffin and it made people in this forum uneasy while he waited. In the end getting Bogut and DWill1 were clearly the best decisions. Then Bogut going down created a domino effect leading to Sanders then Tavares and to me the way this all went down seems perfectly logical if you look at it in context.

As far as Liggins goes I can only surmise that Lue and Lebron saw more need for an enforcer in the playoffs than for an offensively challenged defender. And didn't that move save Gilbert something like $2.5 million? Not chump change.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

The point about Griffin waiting too long to get a pg/center is valid but I will point out that Ty Lue himself said don't get "just any point guard" make sure it's a guy who can help us. That didn't prevent Griffin from getting "temporary help" via D-league but that has to be noted. We have to also remember that teams tend to be in a higher place of leverage, thanks in part to LeBron's greatness but also his impatience. The Denver Nuggets GM got 2 1st round picks for Mozgov then proceeds to trade Nurkic AND a 1st round pick for Mason Plumblee a few years later. That was a bad deal the moment it was announced not just in hindsight and was panned publicly. He couldn't deal Shump without a 1st attached. I guess you can blame him for signing Shump but that deal was reasonable and the regression is 100% on Shump.

I've wavered on the Korver redundancy issue considering we were already a top 3 shooting team but struggled on the defensive end when we acquired him. Shump, JR, Love are unreliable offensive players vs the Warriors and Spurs while there is nothing unreliable about Korver's shot in any setting. Getting PJ Tucker would be nice but watching him be left open to triple Bron/Kyrie while he misses would have some of you singing a different tune. ESPN has a secret stat that isn't always available but there is a gravity/respect/distraction rating and Korver sits right behind Steph Curry in that defenders never leave him and help defenders gravitate towards him (distraction rating). Korver will be useful when the intensity and drives to the basket increase for LeBron and Kyrie in the playoffs.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

You’re giving Griffin credit for things that ended up being coincidences and other things that had nothing to do with him.

The fact that Bogut was made available and chose to sign here? Coincidence.

The fact that ownership is willing to blindly eat money? Fortunate for him.

The fact that Liggins was cut on the latest day possible? That actually cost Gilbert more money than if he had done it earlier. Liggins was out of Lue’s rotation a LOT longer than before Sunday.

Signing Sanders over Tavares once Bogut went down? The Celtics and at least 3 other teams had enough sense to realize Sanders couldn’t provide a NBA team anything for the foreseeable future. Apparently we couldn’t see the same thing.

If I’m being honest of my assessment of Griffin, I give him a C- this year. Passable because Korver looks like a hit, but signing Birdman was a mistake, as was waiting too long to address the backup PG position, and his tendency to fill the roster with one-way players with duplicated skill sets has shown problematic this year.

Griffin said when talking about the Bogut injury, that we had "been working on that for 3 months, then it was gone in 58 seconds"

Bogut signing wasn't a coincidence. The Cavs have a great relationship with Dallas. Bogut was going to be bought out by Dallas if we wasn't bought out by Philly. The only thing that was lucky about it is that no contender offered Dallas draft picks for Bogut, which is not surprising given his play and injury problems this year. Griff knew about the Bogut situation for a long time. He knew he was a very likely guy to be on the buyout market. Almost a for sure thing. It was not a mere coincidence. That injury was absolutely devastating.

I'd have a hard time giving him a grade that low with the assets we've had to work with considered. Now that is his cupboard that is empty , but he emptied it getting a title, champions generally don't have many tradeable assets ever.

 

[tonyn]

What grade would talk give David as so far

I'm curious

 

[FrontPageNews]

What grade would talk give David as so far

I'm curious

Since 2014? C

Only above average move he's made was the shump jr moz trade.

Kyrie was a no brainer. Love was an easy deal since he was pushing to get out and wanted to come. Orlando was looking to move frye for anything they could get. Korver was an unnecessary luxury.

His contract extension have been shit. TT shump and JR all got way over paid without any bidding competition. He gave Andy 10M a year and had to use a first round pick to get off his deal. Missed on an opportunity to get delly for 3 years 9M.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

He got us a Championship! Gets an A in my book for that alone. We are also a favorite to get to the finals again this year, protentialy 3 final appearances in 3 years. Has he been perfect no, no Gm is. With how low everyone is rating him, who would you say has been better?

 

[MirORich]

Since 2014? C

Only above average move he's made was the shump jr moz trade.

Kyrie was a no brainer. Love was an easy deal since he was pushing to get out and wanted to come. Orlando was looking to move frye for anything they could get. Korver was an unnecessary luxury.

His contract extension have been shit. TT shump and JR all got way over paid without any bidding competition. He gave Andy 10M a year and had to use a first round pick to get off his deal. Missed on an opportunity to get delly for 3 years 9M.

Can TT, JR and Shump extensions be truly placed on Griffins doorsteps as negatives? I don't believe so and for two main reasons:

1. Replacement opportunity. Because of the nature of out salary cap at the time of these deals, had any of these three players left the Cavs in FA, we would have still been well over the cap and would have had minimal means to replace them with a player anywhere near their ability.

2. LeBron/Klutch factor. For TT and JR, this was an undeniable anvil over the Cavs FO. Let them walk and you not only face the dilemna in point one, but you also incur massive wrath and breach of faith/trust with LeBron/Rich Paul.

In both of these cases, what other options did the Cavs have that did not risk massive backfire potential due to inability to replace those players and potential to anger LeBron/Klutch?

Also, as far as Shumps deal, look around at the league, while it doesn't make him a better player for it, he is not overpaid at all at 10 million per year. He would've gotten that much or more from another team and was not a RFA. They had to act quick and secure him at the time. But compare his deal to other under 28 year old NBA wings with a pulse signed over the past two offseasons. It's all in the 10-17 million per year range for a lot of average players. I will say this, I did think after year 1 here that Shump would be a little more solid and consistent and he had disappointed in that regard, but given the circumstances and market, it does not mean he's overpaid by NBA standards

 

[godfather]

He got us a Championship! Gets an A in my book for that alone. We are also a favorite to get to the finals again this year, protentialy 3 final appearances in 3 years. Has he been perfect no, no Gm is. With how low everyone is rating him, who would you say has been better?

LeBron James got us a championship. You can say Griffin contributed in helping getting us a championship. But LeBron James delivered us that championship, along with Kyrie.

If I was ranking in importance of contributions.

1.) LeBron

2.) Kyrie
3.) Remaining Players
4.) Dan Gilbert's Money (whether you like him or not, he open the wallet up)
5.) Griffin
6.) Coaching Staff

I'm not trying to knock Griff's importance, by the way.

All six contributed obviously, whether they're good or not at their jobs, whether you like them or not.

But noticed I picked LeBron at one, then with a space between everyone else. Pretty evident he was by far and away the largest factor.

 

[czvo]

Man, some of these comments are crazy. Basically every trade this guy has made was a home run. Wade for JR, Shump and a 1st? Homerun. Two firsts, one of which was the Memphis pick that I'm not sure has been conveyed yet (and may never be)? Homerun. Varejao for Frye? Homerun, and I defy anyone to say he would be as crucial a piece as he ended up being both on and off the floor. Broken down Dunleavy and the ghost of Mo for one of the best shooters ever? Homerun.

The free agent signings have been hit or miss, but there's no denying the trades have been lopsided in favor of the Cavs.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

LeBron James got us a championship. You can say Griffin contributed in helping getting us a championship. But LeBron James delivered us that championship, along with Kyrie.

If I was ranking in importance of contributions.

1.) LeBron

2.) Kyrie
3.) Remaining Players
4.) Dan Gilbert's Money (whether you like him or not, he open the wallet up)
5.) Griffin
6.) Coaching Staff

I'm not trying to knock Griff's importance, by the way.

All six contributed obviously, whether they're good or not at their jobs, whether you like them or not.

But noticed I picked LeBron at one, then with a space between everyone else. Pretty evident he was by far and away the largest factor.

I am not saying Griffen was the only reason. You could argue by your point that the top player for any team was the main reason that team won. It's a lot easier to play GM after you know the results.