Sources: Jays, Phils talk Halladay-Lee blockbuster

[Damage]

So they traded away a bunch of good prospects for a 1 year rental of Lee who and didn't win them anything. Why would Philly do this? Is Halladay is that much better than Lee???

 

[AZ_]

So they traded away a bunch of good prospects for a 1 year rental of Lee who and didn't win them anything. Why would Philly do this? Is Halladay is that much better than Lee???

Five years of Halladay is FAR greater than one more year of Cliff Lee, and it certainly is worth only Dominic Brown.

 

[MoFlo]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html

From mlbtraderumors (they use articles from all over & report them, much like realgm):

5:29pm: Scott Lauber of the News Journal speculates that the Phillies "preliminary" talks with Lee last week regarding an extension beyond 2010 may have left the club with the impression that they were not going to receive any sort of discount from the ace.

5:20pm: Jon Heyman (via Twitter) hears that Morrow may not be leaving Seattle after all. He also hears that Aumont is likely involved the trade and "perhaps" Saunders as well.

5:00pm: ESPN's Jayson Stark heard this deal is close but not done. He says Halladay's extension would be just three years and $60MM (starting in 2011), with possible vesting options for another year or two. Aside from Aumont, the M's would also give up two others in the deal. The Jays would get Phils catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud and Domonic Brown or Michael Taylor plus one other player. The Blue Jays prefer Brown.

3:56pm: Rosenthal and Morosi write that pitcher Phillippe Aumont of the Mariners and "possibly" outfielder Michael Taylor of the Phillies are among the players heading to Toronto in the trade. They add that outfielder Michael Saunders and pitcher Brandon Morrow are "in play." The FOX duo confirms an agreement is in place to send Halladay to the Phillies and Lee to the Mariners. MLB.com's Jordan Bastian sees an official announcement Wednesday at the earliest.

3:17pm: In an article, Heyman notes that Halladay's extension "is expected to be a formality" (though it may not be done today). Heyman appears certain that an agreement has been reached on a Phillies/Jays/Mariners deal that will net the Phils Halladay. Lee's agent Darek Braunecker hasn't heard anything, tweets Tyler Kepner of the New York Times.

2:56pm: Heyman tweets that a three-way deal has been agreed to with Halladay going to the Phillies and Lee to the Mariners. The Phillies are now trying to sign Halladay to an extension. However, in a subsequent tweet, Heyman apologizes for a quick trigger finger and says that while the Ms are confirmed as the third team he is checking to verify they'll get Lee. And MLB.com's Noah Coslov has no confirmed deal from Lee or the Ms.

2:36pm: Morosi tweets that MLB hasn't granted the Phils permission to negotiate with Halladay yet, but a deal "looks close."

1:49pm: CSN's Jim Salisbury reports today that the Phillies are "actively talking" about a contract extension with Roy Halladay's agent, according to two baseball sources. One of those sources told Salisbury Doc is likely to take a physical with the Phillies this week. The Philadelphia Inquirer's Andy Martino adds that Halladay and his agent have checked into a Philadelphia-area hotel.

What's more, Salisbury writes of "indications that pitcher Cliff Lee could be traded." SI's Jon Heyman wrote today that Lee would take no discount to sign an extension. Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports write that "a three-team blockbuster that would send Halladay to the Phillies and Lee to another club is under discussion." They add that the Mariners have "contemplated dealing for Lee in recent days," but a straight Phillies-Jays trade is also possible. The writers say these complex talks involve the Phils receiving money to put toward Halladay's $15.75MM salary next year.

So it looks like some variation of:

Phillies: Halladay
Mariners: Lee
Toronto: D'Arnaud, Brown or Taylor, Aumont

with the M's likely to give up 2 other players as well

Halladay will sign a 3 yr, $60 M extension with the Phils ($3 M less per year than Lee wanted), and the Phils will receive money for Halladay's contract next season.

 

[TAS]

Hey guys, OUR prospects are better than yours .

 

[Chris]

^^ lolwut?

 

[SonofKemp]

I'll probably regret saying this, but the Mariners look GOOD this year.

 

[AMC]

Yeah, Mariners look solid this year. If they can make a few moe moves for offense the they are set. Hanley Ramirez and/or Adam Laroche?

 

[Chris]

So they traded away a bunch of good prospects for a 1 year rental of Lee who and didn't win them anything. Why would Philly do this? Is Halladay is that much better than Lee???

I think it's time to admit Philly just plain didn't value the guys they gave us for Lee...the package wasnt that great at all...

 

[AZ_]

I think it's time to admit Philly just plain didn't value the guys they gave us for Lee...the package wasnt that great at all...

How does this prove that theory?

 

[TAS]

^^ lolwut?

Because both teams keep on trading all-star players for prospects.

 

[Chris]

How does this prove that theory?

Um, they'd rather just trade Lee and bring in Halladay, two guys who are pretty much a wash in terms of comparison? Clearly they are not bothered by the fact that they gave away prospects for a couple months of Lee. I am going to dog that trade until somebody proves to me that those cats will be All Stars, and that means I will be dogging it for a very long time. All you guys who thought we got an incredible package for a Cy Young winner, well, your case certainly isn't helped by the fact that Philly pretty much just shrugged, traded Lee to Seattle, and took Halladay. If they really wanted Lee so badly and thought they gave up a ton to get him, they'd make sure he extended.

 

[UDcleveland]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4744730

Here's the update... And I'm fuming

"As of early Tuesday morning, the Phillies were to send their Cy Young Award winner, Cliff Lee, to Seattle, in exchange for pitching prospect Phillippe Aumont and outfielder prospect Tyson Gillies, sources told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark.


In addition, ProspectInsider.com reported that the Phillies would get a third Mariners prospect, right-hander Juan Ramirez.

The Phillies were to send outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis d'Arnaud and pitcher Kyle Drabek to Toronto, sources told ESPN.com."


Conclusion:

Drabek and Taylor, who the Phillies just would NOT give up, are gone along with other prospects WITH Cliff Lee for a minor upgrade over Lee. Our front office is a bunch of fuckin pushovers. Amaro must have been laughing his ass off after Shapiro caved and took a single A pitcher, a .250 hitting AAA no power catcher and a shortstop who has never hit a home run in his life. Wow

 

[Chris]

Yup.

I'm...sharing similar thoughts right now.

 

[7foot3]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4744730

Here's the update... And I'm fuming

"As of early Tuesday morning, the Phillies were to send their Cy Young Award winner, Cliff Lee, to Seattle, in exchange for pitching prospect Phillippe Aumont and outfielder prospect Tyson Gillies, sources told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark.


In addition, ProspectInsider.com reported that the Phillies would get a third Mariners prospect, right-hander Juan Ramirez.

The Phillies were to send outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis d'Arnaud and pitcher Kyle Drabek to Toronto, sources told ESPN.com."


Conclusion:

Drabek and Taylor, who the Phillies just would NOT give up, are gone along with other prospects WITH Cliff Lee for a minor upgrade over Lee. Our front office is a bunch of fuckin pushovers. Amaro must have been laughing his ass off after Shapiro caved and took a single A pitcher, a .250 hitting AAA no power catcher and a shortstop who has never hit a home run in his life. Wow

Well thats a gross micharacterization. Let's compare what we got for Lee to what the Phillies got for Lee. The Phillies got 3 players, none who have played AA yet. The Indians got 3 guys who were ready to contribute in 2010, all of whom were top 100 prospects coming into 2009. They lost some shine, but these are still good young players. The Indians almost certainly got more for Lee than the Phillies did, as being closer to the majors is a very important factor for prospects. Meanwhile, the Phillies got a chance to negotiate an extension with Halladay, something that wasn't part of the deal for Lee. 4 years of Halladay > almost 1.5 of Lee. This isn't that hard, people.

 

[macbdog]

I think folks are reading this whole situation wrong. This wasn't Cliff Lee for Roy Halladay- none of the 'prospects' acquired for Lee are going to the Jays. This was two separate deals worked out at the same time. Which begs the question: why the hell did Amaro deal Lee?

Getting Halladay is a no-brainer here: I know some folks are blinded by Clifton Phifer love, but Halladay is the superior hurler here. He has a much longer track record (he is one year older than Cliff and has doubled his career #s), throws harder, has a better arsenal of stuff, and somehow has better control than Clifton. This isn't knocking Lee, this is just to remind some of y'all how badass Halladay is. If he had spent his career in NY or Boston, his HOF bust would already have been crafted and be on display in the concourse. He just put up a superior regular season to Lee and I have never seen anything from Roy Halladay that would insinuate he would have difficulty being equally dominant in th postseason. He is a guy who simply hasn't gotten a shot at the postseason, tis all- just like Cliff after Cliff shit his drawers the one year prior that he could have pitched in the posteason.

I can also see why the Phils would prefer to go with Halladay long-term- Halladay is willing to sign a contract extension while Lee isn't. The Phils have deep pockets, but if Halladay hits the open market the Phils instantly have to deal with a club that time and again shows that they have no problem smoking any other outrageous offer, the Yanks. Lee is wise to test FA, I don't blame him, but what he was saying wasn't so much 'it will take 23M to sign me' but 'I know I can get my agent to get the Yanks crazy-stupid when I hit FA w/o Halladay on the market.' Also, as I stated before, if the question is which pitcher to sign longterm, Halladay wins.

What DOESN'T make sense is why the Phils traded Lee for what they did. Here, to me, is the failure. Let's be blunt here- the Ms got a bargain on Lee. Aumont is a future reliever, Gillies is a speedy OBP machine with a little pop, and Ramirez has a terrific arm but so-so production for a 22 year old. Two of them are still in A ball. Is Amaro that enamored with Aumont as Lidge's future relacement? That is all I can guess.

I just don't see the return garnered for Lee being worth more than what he meant to the Phils as the bookend to Halladay and Hamels. You mean to tell me Amaro couldn't have flipped Blanton for Aumont? I think Amaro made a wonderful trade for Halladay, getting him far cheaper than it would have cost him back in July, but he really dropped the ball in dealing Cliff Lee. Amaro just tossed away a triumvirate of Halladay, Hamels, and Lee over 8m and 3 solid but not great prospects.