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Sugary Drink Sin Tax

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It's principle. I think the large majority of people are (rightly) sick of looking at their paychecks and seeing that the government is taking a large bulk of their money away from them and aren't giving us a product/service that we are satisfied with. So it's a hot point for people any time they're told they have to give up even more money to live their lives the way they want to live them.

You are making my point for me. Here is the reason I thought this particular tax was fascinating for my teenage students to research. This isn't a tax you will see coming out of your paycheck. You are a health conscious middle class white dude (closet Jew, but we don't need to get into that) who doesn't drink a lot of sugary beverages. Along comes a tax that helps fund health education in public schools. Who is disproportionately paying this tax? Lower income minority teenagers. They are essentially paying for their own health class costs with each 44 ounce Mountain Dew. Aside from that nacho eating, Orange Faygo drinking, 217 pound upper middle class Maximus, I don't know many Republicans who are going to be put out by this tax. It's one of the most Republican-friendly taxes I've seen.

Keys, as for taxes being in a freeze for over a decade, what taxes? Because just at the national level, the top income rates and capital gains rates went up in 2013. I'm sure there are a number of state and local taxes that have changed around the country as well. So I'm confused by what you mean.

I did take a shortcut there in my explanation. I am looking specifically at how public schools are dealing with budget cuts. This was one way Berkeley looked to open the discussion of a sin tax that reflects new research on the harmful effects of sweetened beverages. It could lead to continued public school funding and a way to lower the overhead for nationalized health care, which people have been raising hell about for over 7 years.
 
This doesn't at all prove that taxation is a "necessity". It does however support the point I have made numerous times that governments in general are responsible for the deaths of more humans than anything else in our history.

I bet the Persians said that to themselves as Gengis Kahn invaded their poorly funded army and fucked the living shit out of their sexy Persian women.
 
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But then these same people vote for the same assholes doing the same things...

That's because people just vote party line and the districts have been so gerrymandered that it's almost impossible for people to not get reelected.
 
I bet the Persians said that to themselves as Gengis Kahn invaded their poorly funded army and fucked the living shit out of their sexy Persian women.

I doubt they were wishing their own government was robbing them on top of it. Those women were going to get fucked either way, no matter how many taxes they paid.
 
This doesn't at all prove that taxation is a "necessity". It does however support the point I have made numerous times that governments in general are responsible for the deaths of more humans than anything else in our history.

Governments responsible how? Armed conflict related deaths only? Or social policies, too?

  • Diabetes: The cost of diabetes
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs236/en/

"... The number of deaths attributed to diabetes was previously estimated at just over 800,000. However, it has long been known that the number of deaths related to diabetes is considerably underestimated. A more plausible figure is likely to be around 4 million deaths per year related to the presence of the disorder…."​
  • Cancer takes about 8 million people's lives per year.
  • Cardiovascular heart disease takes even more. However, I would subtract from that number those who die from 'old age'. Why 'old age' isn't considered a cause of death is beyond me. CHD isn't exactly a 'premature' cause of death for people.

I don't believe the number of deaths due to conflict when averaged out over a century would equal that of health related deaths, especially given how many people on planet (7+ billion).
 
I doubt they were wishing their own government was robbing them on top of it. Those women were going to get fucked either way, no matter how many taxes they paid.

We can agree that those sexy ass Persian women were getting fucked either way.

Look at us: Pro-tax and anti-tax crossing the isle to agree on something...
 
Governments responsible how? Armed conflict related deaths only? Or social policies, too?

  • Diabetes: The cost of diabetes
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs236/en/

"... The number of deaths attributed to diabetes was previously estimated at just over 800,000. However, it has long been known that the number of deaths related to diabetes is considerably underestimated. A more plausible figure is likely to be around 4 million deaths per year related to the presence of the disorder…."​
  • Cancer takes about 8 million people's lives per year.
  • Cardiovascular heart disease takes even more. However, I would subtract from that number those who die from 'old age'. Why 'old age' isn't considered a cause of death is beyond me. CHD isn't exactly a 'premature' cause of death for people.
I don't believe the number of deaths due to conflict when averaged out over a century would equal that of health related deaths, especially given how many people on planet (7+ billion).

Deaths due to conflict may not, though that is even debatable. But when you factor in policies too, it is no contest.
 
Deaths due to conflict may not, though that is even debatable. But when you factor in policies too, it is no contest.

When you exaggerate the effect of those policies, the number grows even more.
 
When you exaggerate the effect of those policies, the number grows even more.

That would be true. How many Russian people did the Soviet government admit that Stalin killed? I don't know, probably close to none. How many did he kill? Around 60 million. So you tell me where you are going to get the exaggerated numbers.
 
That would be true. How many Russian people did the Soviet government admit that Stalin killed? I don't know, probably close to none. How many did he kill? Around 60 million. So you tell me where you are going to get the exaggerated numbers.

Extremely terrible example fits the terrible narrative.
 
And I've derailed the thread enough. Let's get back to discussing how our benevolent leaders should enrich themselves by taxing behavior they determine is bad for us.
 
Let's get back to discussing how our benevolent leaders should enrich themselves by taxing behavior they determine is bad for us.

I believe leaders in medical research have made this conclusion about sugar and high fructose corn syrup, not politicians.
 
Q-Tip could you make a more concise argument here? This is, as usual, to arbitrary.

I thought I was pretty clear. And honestly, I don't even know what you mean by "arbitrary" in this context..

The argument I see in your post is that people aren't rationally/objectively looking at this issue;

No, my argument is twofold, and founded in an opposition to excessive paternalism.

First, I don't believe there is a logical reason to single out sugary foods in particular for taxation simply because "they're bad for you," Because obviously, there are a whole host of things that we eat, drink, and do that are "bad" for us. You could go with fatty foods, red meat, alcohol, whatever. And in most cases, the rationale for selecting one over the other is simply the personal biases of the particular government goombahs with the authority in that instance. They're essentially using the state as an agent for their pet crusades because they know better than the rest of us.

Second, I do not believe that governments are the right entity to be making these kind of cost/benefit analyses for individual people. The amount of pleasure -- the "benefit" each of us gets from any of these "vices" varies widely. Who am I (or anyone else) to say someone else's unhealthy preference for sugary foods should get taxed more highly, but my unhealthy preference for red meat should not?

I've had enough of busybodies lecturing the rest of us on what they think is good for us, but I draw the line at using the power of the state to steer our individual conduct towards what they believe is "good" for us.
 
You are making my point for me. Here is the reason I thought this particular tax was fascinating for my teenage students to research. This isn't a tax you will see coming out of your paycheck. You are a health conscious middle class white dude (closet Jew, but we don't need to get into that) who doesn't drink a lot of sugary beverages. Along comes a tax that helps fund health education in public schools. Who is disproportionately paying this tax? Lower income minority teenagers. They are essentially paying for their own health class costs with each 44 ounce Mountain Dew. Aside from that nacho eating, Orange Faygo drinking, 217 pound upper middle class Maximus, I don't know many Republicans who are going to be put out by this tax. It's one of the most Republican-friendly taxes I've seen

Wow, that is offensive as hell. I'm a Republican, a health-conscious middle class white dude (who avoids sugar), and I'm with Maximus in objecting to this. For a lot of reasons including the fact that it amounts to a bunch of liberals trying to force their lifestyle preferences on a bunch of poor, disproportionately darker-skinned people.

Believe it or not, whitey Republicans don't lay awake at night thinking of way we can squeeze more money out of/screw over minorities and the poor. When we talk about job creation, individual freedom, lessening the burden of government, etc., we believe it will actually help everyone in the longer term, including those who are less well off. Even those dirty, lower-income minority teenagers you think we despise.

We actually do care about people other than ourselves. We just disagree with you on what actually works.
 

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