The Cavs vs Bulls Series

[Cashius X]

Taj Gibson?...Lmao settle down

Yeah...the same Taj Gibson that nearly won the sixth man award last season. You got it though, I'll settle down. You obviously know something that I don't.

 

[amil99]

Yeah...the same Taj Gibson that nearly won the sixth man award last season. You got it though, I'll settle down. You obviously know something that I don't.

Yeah..basketball

 

[CavsHomer]

Of course Taj Gibson is the better/more valuable player right now (in comparison to Marion). That's not even debatable.

But still, let's wait until our roster is complete. Adding Ray Allen and possibly another big will put our bench over theirs, imo.

 

[Scholar]

I think Kirk Hinrich, Tony Snell, Doug McDermott, Taj Gibson/Nikola Mirotic, Nazr Mohammad is better than Delly, James Jones, Mike Miller, Marion, TT. I doubt we'll ever see the two benches really go at it (actually I know we won't) but just based off the individual pieces on each bench I think Chicago pretty easily has the more versatile and capable bench.

And yes...Taj Gibson is better than Marion. I don't even think that's a point that can be discussed. I think most would agree with that statement but they play two different positions so I'm not sure why you brought that specific matchup up.

Snell shot .384 from the field last season. Shooting under .400 is basically basketball's equivalent to baseball's Mendoza line. McDermott and Mirotic are rookies. You are giving them value based on "potential." But, most NBA players don't play anywhere near the level of that potential their rookie year. You are therefore vastly overrating them. Mohammad should be in the NBA dictionary next to the word "retread." He's bench filler to eat some minutes.

 

[Cashius X]

Yeah..basketball

I don't understand...

Last season Taj Gibson put up marginally better stats in less minutes than Marion and also the Bulls and the Mavericks had nearly identical records so Gibson's numbers weren't just "empty stats". Enlighten me as to how Marion is better than Taj again? And even more so why it's laughable to state otherwise?

 

[MirORich]

Hmmm. Does the possibility exist that every fan base rates their bench players 20-30% higher than outsiders and that we downgrade other teams bench players by 20-30%? Cause that's what it looks like in here right now.

Marion for his whole career over Taj to date is an obvious call. Marion last year vs. Taj last year, I'd rate pretty even in terms of impact. I think that will hold true for this coming season as well, which is the only season I'm concerned about at this point.

As others have mentioned though, slight differences in the two teams benches are not going to be the deciding factor in a Cavs-Bulls series. Nor will the Bulls having great PF depth mean much against the Cavs as we will always have the best PF on the court for 36-40 mpg and the Bulls aren't going to play more than one of their PF's at a time during the final 6 minutes of the game.

Lastly a crunch time lineup of Rose, Butler, Gibson, Pau, and Noah? Please. We can trade 3pt for 2pt possessions with them all quarter long and have the game decided before the final two minutes.

 

[e0y2e3]

Taj was, literally, one of the most impact full bench players in the NBA last year. He was efficient as hell on offense and one of the best interior defenders (especially from the four) in the NBA. Marion was an average defender (which he was, all the metrics and the eye test back this up, hence the Mavs looking for a starting upgrade this year). Marion's offense now is just opportunistic buckets and the occasional open ugly jump shot, which is also less than Taj whose spring makes him more of a threat.

I like Marion on this team, I like him a lot. I would trade six of him for Taj and give them TT with a bow on his head to boot. I am hoping/assuming people talking down Taj's impact off the bench just didn't watch the Bulls last year (and that is understandable, their offense was vomit inducing ugly).

 

[SalvadoranCavsfan]

I think Kirk Hinrich, Tony Snell, Doug McDermott, Taj Gibson/Nikola Mirotic, Nazr Mohammad is better than Delly, James Jones, Mike Miller, Marion, TT. I doubt we'll ever see the two benches really go at it (actually I know we won't) but just based off the individual pieces on each bench I think Chicago pretty easily has the more versatile and capable bench.

And yes...Taj Gibson is better than Marion. I don't even think that's a point that can be discussed. I think most would agree with that statement but they play two different positions so I'm not sure why you brought that specific matchup up.

Captain Kirk is a good back up PG. I can also agree with you that Taj is better right now than Marion, but Chicago's bench being easily better than ours? Come on.

-Tony Snell shot below 40% all of last season averaging less than 5 points a game.

-Nazr Mohammad only averaged 7 minutes a game last year, and since he's on the wrong end of 37 I doubt he'll be upping his last season's averages of 1.6 ppg and 2.2 rpg.

Doug McDermott and Mirotic haven't even played a damn game in the NBA. Are they going to come in and instantly be better than:

-Shawn Marion who averaged 10 and 6 while shooting 48%

-Mike Miller who averaged 7 ppg while shooting 48% and 45%!!! from beyond the arc

-Tristan Thompson who nearly averaged a double double last season

- A Matthew Dellavedova who had meh numbers last but should improve in his second year in the league.

I don't know how you can objectively compare our two benches and say that Chicago's easily beats ours.

 

[amil99]

I don't understand...

Last season Taj Gibson put up marginally better stats in less minutes than Marion and also the Bulls and the Mavericks had nearly identical records so Gibson's numbers weren't just "empty stats". Enlighten me as to how Marion is better than Taj again? And even more so why it's laughable to state otherwise?

Gibson is irrelevant. Just another average player who is a product of Thibs ball to the wall coaching style that makes role players look decent over the course of a 82 game season. In the playoffs talent wins out and I guarantee Taj Gibson wont be the difference in a series between the 2 teams. He might be a little better than Marion at this point but by no means is he "the difference " between the benches...

Kirk and Delly pretty much provides the same thing for their respective teams. I see literally no advantages.

McDermott and Mirotic vs Mike Miller and TT? At this point TT is the best player of this bunch and Mike Miller has a proven cannon while McDermott is a damn rookie. Again I fail to see the Bulls advantages

Toney Snell vs James Jones...mediocrity vs mediocrity. I'll give Snell the advantage in this ugly match but the difference is we wont be counting on Jones whereas they have to hope Snell is a contributor

Nazi vs Haywood aka fossil vs fossil. I fail to see what either of these guys do well enough to even debate the advantages

So tell me again about this bench advantage?

 

[Cashius X]

Snell shot .384 from the field last season. Shooting under .400 is basically basketball's equivalent to baseball's Mendoza line. McDermott and Mirotic are rookies. You are giving them value based on "potential." But, most NBA players don't play anywhere near the level of that potential their rookie year. You are therefore vastly overrating them. Mohammad should be in the NBA dictionary next to the word "retread." He's bench filler to eat some minutes.

Snell shot 38% from the field last season but look at the sample size. He averaged 4.5 ppg in 16 mpg on 4 FG per game. I don't think it wise to judge him solely based off that stat line. I saw him in summer league and he looked good and I expect some of that play to translate to the regular season (provided he gets minutes). And as it stands James Jones is slated as our backup SG. I don't think Snell a great player by any means but I have 0 faith in Jones being able to matchup with him.

And I know that McDermott and Mirotic are rookies but they're not your average rookies. These guys are around 22/23. They're more reliable and more ready to contribute to winning than most other "normal rookies". How am I overrating them? Because I don't think they'll be complete shit during their rookie year? When looking at both teams' benches Doug is matched up with Mike Miller who is not exactly known as a stopper on defense. Doug was touted as one of the best scorers of his class and I think that skill will translate very quickly into his NBA career. Again he's 22...not some typical rookie that's still raw as hell coming into the league. He's rather polished already. Same with Mirotic. To discount them from being good rotational pieces next year simply due to the fact that "they're rookies" is ridiculous. I'm giving these guys value based on what I know they can do from watching them and reading their scouting reports.

And you label Mohammad as "bench filler" (which he is) but he'll be going up against TT...not exactly someone who can exploit the matchup. TT is better that Nazr imo but I don't see that matchup tipping the scale either way.

Again, I'm saying that when I look at both benches in relation to each other, the Chicago bench is better imo. I said this in response to another poster commenting on the benches. I know it's rather irrelevant because we'll never see all these matchups on the court as coaches don't typically make mass substitutions, but when going down the list of players on both benches I find Chicago's to be more versatile and just better in general.

 

[Cavsfan161]

Talk of Kevin Martin to bulls.

 

[Marcus]

He can help fill out their guard rotation when Rose goes down again.

 

[e0y2e3]

BTW: the only thing anyone needs to look at when evaluating the Cavs against the interior heavy NBA

Gibson is irrelevant. Just another average player who is a product of Thibs ball to the wall coaching style that makes role players look decent over the course of a 82 game season.

That certainly is why Asik bombed out when he went to Houston.... SMH

 

[amil99]

Talk of Kevin Martin to bulls.

I hope it happens. Whoever he guards of the Waiters/James duo is gonna destroy him. His offense isnt good enough at this point to keep him on the floor

 

[amil99]

BTW: the only thing anyone needs to look at when evaluating the Cavs against the interior heavy NBA


That certainly is why Asik bombed out when he went to Houston.... SMH

so great he isnt even on the roster anymore . Face it the Bulls dont stand a chance