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The ISIS offensive in Iraq

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I don't think they can be.

As far as I'm concerned, I couldn't give a shit less whether we're getting reporting on what's going on over there or not. They don't deserve to be reported on.

Just kill these people.
 
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I think you're dead-on with all this. There may have been a window to help the moderate Syrian opposition, but I think that's gone. Biggest mistake was leaving Iraq without making arrangements for continued air support for the Iraqi Army. And when ISIS started surging, we waited too long to start air strikes. I think we can prevent them from taking significantly more territory with close air support, but if the goal is to roll them back, that's not going to be enough.

I think it was Petraes who said that the US government has to avoid becoming the Iraqi govt's, or worse, the Shiite militias' air force. Iraq has to develop those types of capabilities on their own, and if the US had maintained a strong presence, they would not do so. I realize so far the Iraq government has failed but that doesn't mean it was wrong to pull out our airstrike capability. The Iraq govt simply dropped the ball there. I agree the US waited too long after the initial failures to make air strikes, but the US couldn't continue and cannot continue to be Iraq's air force in perpetuity.
 
I think it was Petraes who said that the US government has to avoid becoming the Iraqi govt's, or worse, the Shiite militias' air force. Iraq has to develop those types of capabilities on their own, and if the US had maintained a strong presence, they would not do so. I realize so far the Iraq government has failed but that doesn't mean it was wrong to pull out our airstrike capability. The Iraq govt simply dropped the ball there. I agree the US waited too long after the initial failures to make air strikes, but the US couldn't continue and cannot continue to be Iraq's air force in perpetuity.

I'd have to see exactly what Petraeus said, and in what context, because I do know he and most other generals wanted to keep a force of some kind in Iraq after we withdrew. We obviously wouldn't want to do it permanently, but it seems we hadn't even trained any of them to be FAC's in the first place, so there isn't anybody capable of controlling air support -- either ours or their own -- on the ground. It's not simple, but it's not that hard.
 
I find it ironic that they so despise the west, yet use western technologies and western ideas to translate their messages of hatred.

I mean, the dude that's executing everyone is suppose to be a British rapper for crying out loud. And I'm pretty sure rap music wasn't founded on the Islamic faith.

Because they don't despise the West. That's what the problem is... many folks simply don't get it, so it must boil down to "they just hate us." But that isn't what drives them.

What drives them is American dominance in the region, our continued unconditional support of Israel, and most importantly our propping up of client state dictatorships in Saudi Arabia among other nations.

EDIT: And to be clear, I'm not opposed to any of those three aforementioned realities. I'm all for "American dominance," support for Israel (albeit not unconditionally), and supporting states that help us financially regardless of their system of government. However, given the current landscape of the Middle East, what are we really accomplishing there by holding to these policies?

1. Israel can defend itself.
2. We should be moving away from using fossil fuels in all respects, not desperately latching on to every last drop.
3. If Saudi Arabia collapsed, this would be catastrophic only because of the need for Saudi fuel. Marginalizing that key issue alleviates the U.S. need for continued support allowing us to further withdraw from the region.
 
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ISIS was terrorizing and killing people -- and capturing journalists -- when there weren't any American soldiers in Syria or Iraq. We tried the Blame America First, "maybe it's just that they hate us so we'll try the hands-off approach", and the result was that ISIS power and influence surged.

This tactic is tired, and I've seen it from you more than once. No one said "Blame America" so take that back to where it came from.

But if you think bombing ISIS and engaging them in armed conflict will solve this problem you're mistaken. You can't win a war against an idea. More and more Muslims will continue to perceive this as a war against Islam, and more and more of them will take up arms against the United States.

I'm not saying we shouldn't level strikes against ISIS specifically as that is a narrower issue. What I am saying is that we should not expect such a military conflict to solve this large-scale problem. We will need to change our foreign policy, drastically, if we really want an end to Islamic extremism targeted towards the United States.
 
What drives them is American dominance in the region, our continued unconditional support of Israel, and most importantly our propping up of client state dictatorships in Saudi Arabia among other nations.

Thank you for the info, bud. Can you possibly elaborate on this further for me? Or even if you have a link to more reading material, that would be great.
 
One of these days we're just going to have to get out, let Israel do what it wants, and tell the rest of the world to shut the hell up when they start leveling cities.
 
This tactic is tired, and I've seen it from you more than once. No one said "Blame America" so take that back to where it came from.

But if you think bombing ISIS and engaging them in armed conflict will solve this problem you're mistaken. You can't win a war against an idea. More and more Muslims will continue to perceive this as a war against Islam, and more and more of them will take up arms against the United States.

I'm not saying we shouldn't level strikes against ISIS specifically as that is a narrower issue. What I am saying is that we should not expect such a military conflict to solve this large-scale problem. We will need to change our foreign policy, drastically, if we really want an end to Islamic extremism targeted towards the United States.
You've apparently never heard of the First and Second Barbary Wars. We've been at war with various strains of radical Islam for 200+ years, and a shift in foreign policy now will not stop it, just as there was no provocation for its beginning other than our ships happened to be in the Mediterranean.

The ISIS tactic of capturing civilians and demanding tribute is nothing new. In fact, it's one of the first foreign policy crises this country had to deal with with the Barbary States way back in the 1790s. If you do not start to deal with the ISIS threat now, they will strike this country on its own turf, just like their now-disowned parents in al Qaeda did in 2001. Even a full withdrawal tomorrow from the entire Middle East with a "you're on your own" parting message to Israel would not stop that. At some point, we need to realize with these people, death to all the infidels isn't a slogan, it's a mission statement, and one they intend to pursue to the ends of the Earth.

You're right in saying you can't win a war against an idea, but in this case, you may not have to go that far. You think most civilians are going to enjoy living in a society that goes even further under a radical interpretation of Sharia law (pretty radical to begin with) in the new caliphate these jackholes are trying to establish? It's slightly more complex than we're fighting all Muslims (which would not be the perception), it'd be that we're attacking Sunni Muslims. There's a level of complexity your argument is missing there.
 
How do you attack specifically these people without harming scores of civilians?

Are they centralized in any way? Do they gather for any kind of known events at any point?
 
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This tactic is tired, and I've seen it from you more than once. No one said "Blame America" so take that back to where it came from.

Really? Here is the exact quote from you:

What drives them is American dominance in the region, our continued unconditional support of Israel, and most importantly our propping up of client state dictatorships in Saudi Arabia among other nations.

You gave three reasons for why they do what they do, and all of them were blaming this country. You blamed nothing else -- not their radical ideology, not rabble-rousers or conditions in their own nations, not their expressly stated desire to suppress all religious beliefs except their own, nothing. They are driven solely by things we've supposedly done wrong, despite radical Islam having a genesis in that region when we weren't involved there at all.

But you've provided one example of the geopolitical school of thought that blames U.S. involvement for violence, and believes that -- whether because of malevolence or just blundering -- our presence/involvement inevitably makes things worse. I'm not saying that you hold that belief generally, but that certainly appears to be the case with the particular opinion you expressed here.

But I do think that is one of the President's core foreign policy principles -- that things would get better on their own if we just left them alone. Kind of the Jmmy Carer foreign policy on steroids.

And I believe that's part of what has him looking so indecisive/passive right now. When one of your core precepts is that U.S. involvement makes things worse, then how do you respond when our un-involvement/withdrawal/passivity is followed not by a reduction in tensions and conflict, but by massive escalation? Reality has contradicted his worldview. And now when the sentiment seems to be that we should "do something", that sentiment runs up against that long-held belief that "doing something" makes things worse. So, he dithers.

But if you think bombing ISIS and engaging them in armed conflict will solve this problem you're mistaken. You can't win a war against an idea. More and more Muslims will continue to perceive this as a war against Islam, and more and more of them will take up arms against the United States.

An effective military campaign against ISIS can defeat ISIS. Whether you can defeat "an idea" is fairly irrelevant because you can win a war against the people who espouse that idea so as to at least limit, and sometimes eliminate, their effectiveness and that idea.

The Cathars and a great many others likely would disagree with you about not being able to win a war against an idea. There are tons of examples throughout history where successful military campaigns have essentially killed an idea. Or at least, prevented those who still believe in that idea from being able to meaningfully affect the rest of the world.

I also reject your aphorism that fighting against radical Islam will simply encourage more people to join it. That's a bootstrapping argument that ignores how ISIS got all that power and influence in the first place in places in which we had no real involvement at all. And I think there's pretty good evidence that ISIS expanded so rapidly in Iraq precisely because it wasn't being countered by a competent military adversary.

I'm not saying we shouldn't level strikes against ISIS specifically as that is a narrower issue.

Okay, so you agree that we should level strikes against ISIS? Then where's the disagreement? Because I never said that U.S. military involvement alone was the best course to address the overall problem.

What I am saying is that we should not expect such a military conflict to solve this large-scale problem. We will need to change our foreign policy, drastically, if we really want an end to Islamic extremism targeted towards the United States.

I agree that it may not be a problem that can be resolved solely through military means, but it also isn't one that can be resolved purely by non-military action either. The primary impetus to solve the larger scale problem is going to have to come from within the larger community of Islam.
 
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Don't know if you guys heard about this, but this is what we woke up to this morning in Australia:

Unprecedented terror raids underway after reports a 'beheading or mass shooting' may have been planned for Australia
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...r-raids-in-western-sydney#fiRg46ee3aOQwI8F.99

Australian terror raids: AFP, ASIO move on suspected terrorists
Read more at http://www.news.com.au/national/aus...ected-terrorists/story-fncynjr2-1227062204389

They're calling this the largest terror raid in Australian history. It's really getting ridiculous at this point.
 
Well, our Australian PM confirmed that we'd be sending troops to join the military campaign.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...e-targeted-by-raaf-bombs-20140915-10h2cf.html.

Count us in as another likely terror target, now that our alert level has been raised from medium to high (a terrorist attack is likely to occur) for the first time since the code was established after 9/11.
Don't know if you guys heard about this, but this is what we woke up to this morning in Australia:

Unprecedented terror raids underway after reports a 'beheading or mass shooting' may have been planned for Australia
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...r-raids-in-western-sydney#fiRg46ee3aOQwI8F.99

Australian terror raids: AFP, ASIO move on suspected terrorists
Read more at http://www.news.com.au/national/aus...ected-terrorists/story-fncynjr2-1227062204389

They're calling this the largest terror raid in Australian history. It's really getting ridiculous at this point.


Sounds like that attack was being planned even before your PM made that announcement. May even have been what prompted your PM to make that announcement, figuring that if ISIS was going to try to kill Auzzies when you weren't even bothering them, you may as well fight back.
 
Law enforcement bulletin warned of ISIS urging jihad attacks on US soil

A law enforcement bulletin obtained by FoxNews.com warned that Islamic State fighters have increased calls for "lone wolves" to attack U.S. soldiers in America in recent months, citing one tweet that called for jihadists to find service members' addresses online and then "show up and slaughter them."

There will be “a continued call - by Western fighters in Syria and terrorist organizations - for lone offender attacks against U.S. military facilities and personnel,” warned a July law enforcement intelligence bulletin from the Central Florida Intelligence Exchange, a state-run agency that gathers, assesses and shares threat information and works with the Department of Homeland Security. “These threats will most likely increase should the U.S. or its allies attack the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham (ISIS) in Syria or Iraq.”

In one example cited in the bulletin, a British jihadist encouraged radicals still living in the West to use Facebook and LinkedIn to find and target soldiers.

"You could literally search for soldiers, find their town, photos of them, look for address in Yellowbook or something," the tweet read. "Then show up and slaughter them.”

On Thursday, Peter Boogaard, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security, told FoxNews.com that "there is no credible intelligence at this time to suggest that there is an active plot by (ISIS) to carry out an attack in the United States."

"Public postings by people claiming to be (ISIS) supporters on social media threatening to carry out attacks against the United States and our allies have been made, and we are aware of them," Boogaard said in a statement. "The product referenced is based on such open source social media reports from earlier this summer and is not considered to reference specific, credible evidence of a plot against the homeland.”

The bulletin came out long before Tuesday's indictment of an upstate New York man on a raft of terror-related charges, including attempting to kill "officers and employees of the United States. Mufid Elfgeeh, 30, of Rochester, was indicted Tuesday by a federal grand jury on three counts of attempting to provide material support and resources to Islamic State. Elfgeeh was arrested in late May in a Walmart parking lot after a sting in which an FBI informant offered to sell him guns and silencers, which Elfgeeh allegedly wanted to use to kill returning American troops as well as Shiite Muslims living in the region.

Killing U.S. troops on American soil is an increasing focus of jihadists, according to the bulletin, titled “Continued Threat to Military Personnel from Al Qaeda Inspired Homegrown Violent Extremists.” It was sent out on July 8, 2014, “in response to recent social media messaging from Western fighters in Syria calling for attacks against “soldiers in the West.” Instead of luring radicalized Americans to the Middle East, Islamic State will likely encourage them to stay home and kill U.S. soldiers here, the bulletin warned.

“U.S.-based [Home-Grown Violent Extremists] could be inspired by this rhetoric to turn their attention towards carrying out attacks at home,” the bulletin states.

The radical rhetoric is delivered via social media, where Islamic State operatives have long exhorted westerners to get on a plane and come join the battle. But terrorists now believe they can have a powerful effect from afar just by inspiring attacks inside the U.S.

“In recent Twitter posts, foreign fighters in Syria have encouraged Muslims in the West to target soldiers with spontaneous attacks using small arms (i.e. knives and guns),” the bulletin said.

It listed several examples of tweets posted in late June that specifically mention interest in attacking Western military personnel. In one series of tweets a British fighter formerly with Jabhat al Nusra lamented the terrorist infighting between Islamic State and groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.

"I’m realizing bickering about internal politics is taking up our time too much, the enemies are working what’s stopping you from something like learning how to make explosives or learning shooting, or killing vulnerable soldiers right now? (To the bros in the West).”

The bulletin also cited an uptick in chatter on Internet forums calling for attacks on Western military targets, with many referring to Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hassan, who killed 13 service members at the Texas Army base in 2009 in a case the Obama administration still labels as an example of "workplace violence," and not terrorism. Hasan recently announced from prison, where he is awaiting execution, he wanted to join Islamic State.

A commenter on the Ansar Al-Mujahideen English Forum reposted a 2009 statement from radicalized American Adam Gadahn, now a senior Al Qaeda leader, praising Hasan.

"The Mujahid brother Nidal Hasan, lightly armed but with a big heart, a strong will and a confident step, again brought into focus the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of America ... and most significantly, the Mujahid brother Nidal Hasan is a pioneer, a trailblazer and a role model who has opened the door, lit a path and shown the way forward for every Muslim among the unbelievers and yearns to discharge his duty to Allah and play a part in the defense of Islam and Muslims against the savage, heartless and bloody Zionist Crusader assault on our religion, sacred places and homelands,” read the statement.

The intelligence center assessed in July “ “that military personnel will likely be targeted individually in spontaneous ‘ambush’ style attacks similar to the May, 2013, machete attack against British soldier Drummer Lee Rigby in the U.K.

*********************************

Excellent. Nothing more exhilarating than having a target painted on your back while in your own damn country.
 

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