Simple question, gourimoko:
ugh....
Do you agree or disagree with your own statement that Palestine is "not the primary motivating factor for ISIS"?
Q-Tip, you want a simplified answer to a complex question and I'll try my best to answer this (and yes, I know the answer).
ISIS fighters based in Iraq are fighting for Iraq and Syria.
ISIS fighters from around the globe are fighting against what they perceive as hegemony. Yes, they are driven by the Palestinian. This is evidenced by Al-Baghdadi's 100% continual references to Palestine in literally every single speech he makes.
However, Al-Baghdadi himself is only interested in power, not the Palestinians. He is using their cause as a rally cry to recruit disillusioned Muslims from around the world. He points to the injustices in Palestine and says "see, THAT is real terrorism. The solution is jihad."
The point I was making was that if we end our hegemony in the region, if we stop being so one-sided in our handling of the Palestinian issue, and we promote even-handedness and fairness, and true democracy - whatever form it takes - then we'll disarm cowards like Al-Baghdadi who use religion as a war cry to commit murder.
Contrary to what you've insinuated, I have never disputed that Palestine is an important issue for many Arabs and Muslims. It certainly is the prime motivator for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.
Very weird to juxtapose those two groups in that sentence.. I'll just leave it alone.
And other groups certainly would include it in the litany of grievances against the West. Doesn't mean I agree that the U.S. should placate such groups by adopting their agenda on Palestine, but I at least acknowledge their position on it.
It's not about "their position" or placating them. It's about not being so one-sided. We're obviously favoring our "ally" Israel and for obvious reasons (political elections here at home). It's pathetic.
You don't think Muslims are smart enough to put two and two together? Palestine isn't an ISIS issue, it's a human rights issue. We are obviously hypocrites, and worse, we arm the murderers of Muslims and Arabs who we know will kill repeatedly and without mercy. Kill thousands of women and children to make political points.
Every Muslim, and every Arab should feel outraged at American policy in the Middle East. It is disgusting.
We are supporting the ethnic cleansing of an entire race of people.... it's just, shameful.
However, that still leaves a bunch of other motives that divide Muslims that you simply refuse to discuss or even acknowledge.
When did I refuse to discuss what divides Muslims? Why lie?
There have been terrorist attacks against nations other than the U.S. that do not support Israel. Why? What is the motivation for young Muslim men to murder other Muslims for not being sufficiently devout?
It isn't about being sufficiently devout. You mean ISIS killing Syrian troops? They
should be killing Syrian troops! They are fighting to depose a ruthless dictator! Or don't you remember when the Republican caucus was furious that Obama wasn't going to arm the Syrian (Islamist) Rebels? Or how Hillary Clinton just wrote a book about how she wanted to arm those same groups -- who are, by the way, Islamists.
You realize the FSA beheads Syrian fighters right? And vice versa... You realize it's not just ISIS, right?
This isn't a war about Islam (in Syria and Iraq). I don't know why you think it is.
What is the motivation to suppress Christians, or Yazidis?
Racism.
Do you really expect people to believe that's really about Israel?
Who said it was? Why do you always make this same ridiculous style of argument, by simply lying about what the other person has said?
When did I say it was
all the drives ISIS fighters.. When did I say that all they fight for is Palestine..? Or that in Iraq and Syria, it is all they think about is Palestine...? When did I say anything remotely like that? I said it is a motivating factor, it drives the disillusioned Western Arab to join ISIS, it is a rally cry.
How does that mean there are no other issues.
Other Muslims who agree with ISIS on the issue of Palestine are nevertheless fighting ISIS.
Don't understand what this has to do with my point?
Good grief, Al Qaeda broke with ISIS because they were too radical.
And they are now fighting alongside each other in Syria. What is your point?
As I said, I have no doubt that Palestine is one issue of concern to groups like ISIS and AQ. Unfortunately, I also believe that anything other than the complete elimination of Israel won't satisfy the radicals who join such groups even if it does satisfy the majority of Arabs. With respect to the AQ's and ISIS' of the world, these are people who justify murdering innocents simply because they aren't sufficiently devout, are of a different religion, or even because there are "infidels" hundreds of miles away from Mecca and Medina who happen to be in S.A..
You don't understand ISIS or Al Qaeda and aren't trying to. Al Qaeda is a political organization; they are not motivated by establishing an Islamic Caliphate. Al Qaeda is a revolutionary group, driven by Sunni extremists, who are waging a terrorist campaign against the United States for political goals - not religious goals. Withdrawal from Saudi Arabia, withdrawal from Afghanistan, a Palestinian State, and the overthrow of now strongman Al-Sisi are their chief objectives.
ISIS' goals are very different. They are establishing the Islamic Caliphate. They do this to answer the wrongs done against the Muslim people. They are attacking other Muslims for political reasons, predominantly, as those Muslims are supporting the regimes that oppose ISIS. It's pretty easy to understand if you think about it.
As far as killing apostates, that is their religious belief. Obvious it is wrong, but still you should understand who they are killing. It isn't "sectarian" violence between Muslims (at least, not at this point, although that will happen eventually). The primary issue now is political. Who controls what.
As far as Christians being persecuted; it's no different than Jews being persecuted in Germany. It's very similar .
What are the odds that any solution to the Palestine issue that is remotely acceptable to Israel is going to satisfy those kind of people?
It would satisfy many of the people who would think to join these types of movements. It would disarm the most extreme elements of these movements leaving them without 30-50,000
volunteers. With thousands of European fighters. A solution in Palestine among other things would go a long way to solve our issues with the Islamic world.
This isn't a fight we're going to win with bombs. For every fighter we kill, we create 5 more. How is that a winnable strategy when we're up against over 1 billion Muslims?
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