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The ISIS offensive in Iraq

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http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-true-believers

Just an excerpt from that interview Sam Harris conducted buy damn if it isn't a pretty solid line on what Islam can be to different people.

Be mindful of Sam Harris, the guy is very well spoken but has said some very, well, derogatory, things. He's a self-described "atheist," but in reality he's not; he's an anti-theist which is remarkably different. However, for whatever reason he gives deference to his own personal and cultural heritage and not to others (as demonstrated in his debate with Cenk Uygur).

He was called out by Uygur and Reza Aslan (who pretty much trashed Harris' arguments).

Remember, Sam Harris said the following, “If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would not hesitate to get rid of religion,”

Obviously this is someone with an axe to grind. His issues with ISIS are more to do with Islam than with ISIS itself, even if he'd like to obfuscate his own personal feelings behind international sentiments against the Islamic State.

Comments like "any of you peaceful people inclined to pick the wrong side here," are indicative of his willingness to continue to drive his own tired narrative.
 
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I'm well aware of where Sam Harris stands on Islam and religion in general.

I just thought the bolded part of that quote was probably the best way to generalize what Islam can mean to different types of followers of its teachings.
 
I'm well aware of where Sam Harris stands on Islam and religion in general.

I just thought the bolded part of that quote was probably the best way to generalize what Islam can mean to different types of followers of its teachings.

Indeed.. I actually agree with the bolded. The best description of ISIS would be a "jihadi death cult."
 
Maybe this has been discussed already but what do members think about Iran in Iraq fighting Isis? In my opinion Iran has a bigger goal in the Middle East and beyond. Defeating Isis is a start.
 
Maybe this has been discussed already but what do members think about Iran in Iraq fighting Isis? In my opinion Iran has a bigger goal in the Middle East and beyond. Defeating Isis is a start.

Iran hasn't really attempted to project it's power militarily and hasn't invaded anyone in recent history.

I'm all for trying to find common ground with Iran to help defeat ISIS, and a Pan-Arabian/Persian military force would be great to not only defeat ISIS but bring stability to the region in a way that those living there would agree to.

However, given what we just heard out of our shadow President's mouth (Netanyahu), "the enemy of your enemy is ... your enemy."

So we've got nothing but enemies, apparently. So oh well..
 
Maybe this has been discussed already but what do members think about Iran in Iraq fighting Isis? In my opinion Iran has a bigger goal in the Middle East and beyond. Defeating Isis is a start.

Iran isn't helping Iraq out of the goodness of its heart. It is doing it to strengthen the Shi'ites in Iraq and gain influence over the government.

And while Iran hasn't committed its Army in other nations, it has supplied large amounts of weapons, including tens of thousands of rockets, to surrogates, including Hamas and Hezbollah.
 
The Islamic radical group Boko Haram has pledged allegiance to ISIS. Good times...

(CNN)Boko Haram, the Nigeria-based Islamist terror group, has pledged allegiance to ISIS, according to an audio message purported to be from Boko Haram's leader, Abubakar Shekau.

In the audio, which was posted online Saturday, the speaker says Boko Haram is announcing its "allegiance to the Caliph of the Muslims, Ibrahim ibn Awad ibn Ibrahim al-Husseini al-Qurashi," which is another name for ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

CNN has not been able to independently authenticate the message.



Expert: Coupling makes sense


But Jacob Zenn, an expert on the terror group who is with the Jamestown Foundation, said the recording appeared to be authentic. He said that while other messages have been faked, the speaker in this one is Shekau.

"Boko Haram joining the ISIS fold makes sense to both groups," he said from Abuja, Nigeria. "Boko Haram will get legitimacy, which will help its recruiting, funding and logistics as it expands into (French-speaking) West Africa. It will also get guidance from ISIS in media warfare and propaganda. Previously Boko Haram was a sort of outcast in the global Jihadi community. Now it is perhaps ISIS's biggest affiliate.

"ISIS gets more international legitimacy as a global caliphate."

Boko Haram has had two main factions -- one led by Shekau and the other comprising former members of Ansaru, a Boko Haram offshoot. Ansaru had been operating from around 2012 as the Nigerian wing of AQIM (al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb). After the French-led intervention in Mali in 2013, a significant number of Ansaru members re-integrated with Shekau, Zenn told CNN.

The prerequisite for Boko Haram joining ISIS coalition was a coming together of two factions.

ISIS connected with former Ansaru fighters within Boko Haram and pressed them to further unify the group's ranks. The result was the formation of a unity General Command between the two factions.

That involved bridging of some ideological differences between the al Qaeda-like Ansaru and the ultraextreme "takfiri"-like Shekau.



U.S. doubts about if partnership will be effective


In July, Shekau voiced support for ISIS, and declared a overtaken town in northeast Nigeria to be part of an Islamic caliphate. But he also said he was praying for al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri and Taliban leader Mullah Omar.

U.S. intelligence officials have some doubts the two groups would get along.

The CIA's analysis has been that Boko is very African and rooted in that region's Islamic practices, even if they have similar fundamentalist interpretations of Islam. And ISIS's Arab leadership and membership tends to have racist attitudes toward blacks, not unlike the society they come from.



Increasing violence


Boko Haram, whose name translates as "Western education is sin," has been waging a yearslong campaign of terror aimed at instituting its extreme version of Sharia law.

Boko Haram's tactics have intensified in recent years, from battling Nigerian government soldiers to acts disproportionately affecting civilians -- such as raids on villages, mass kidnappings, assassinations, market bombings and attacks on churches and unaffiliated mosques.

Much of this violence has taken place in Nigeria. But neighboring countries, such as Cameroon and Chad, have also been hit increasingly hard.
 
Thanks for posting @JSS2306

This is really troubling to me. In my opinion Boko Haram has been the most holistically deadly terrorist group in the Middle East/North Africa. If ISIS gets some of BH's resources it could pose a huge dilemma for the average citizen in Nigeria, Chad, Cameroon, as well as Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey.
 
The Islamic radical group Boko Haram has pledged allegiance to ISIS. Good times...

(CNN)Boko Haram, the Nigeria-based Islamist terror group, has pledged allegiance to ISIS, according to an audio message purported to be from Boko Haram's leader, Abubakar Shekau.

In the audio, which was posted online Saturday, the speaker says Boko Haram is announcing its "allegiance to the Caliph of the Muslims, Ibrahim ibn Awad ibn Ibrahim al-Husseini al-Qurashi," which is another name for ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

CNN has not been able to independently authenticate the message.



Expert: Coupling makes sense


But Jacob Zenn, an expert on the terror group who is with the Jamestown Foundation, said the recording appeared to be authentic. He said that while other messages have been faked, the speaker in this one is Shekau.

"Boko Haram joining the ISIS fold makes sense to both groups," he said from Abuja, Nigeria. "Boko Haram will get legitimacy, which will help its recruiting, funding and logistics as it expands into (French-speaking) West Africa. It will also get guidance from ISIS in media warfare and propaganda. Previously Boko Haram was a sort of outcast in the global Jihadi community. Now it is perhaps ISIS's biggest affiliate.

"ISIS gets more international legitimacy as a global caliphate."

Boko Haram has had two main factions -- one led by Shekau and the other comprising former members of Ansaru, a Boko Haram offshoot. Ansaru had been operating from around 2012 as the Nigerian wing of AQIM (al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb). After the French-led intervention in Mali in 2013, a significant number of Ansaru members re-integrated with Shekau, Zenn told CNN.

The prerequisite for Boko Haram joining ISIS coalition was a coming together of two factions.

ISIS connected with former Ansaru fighters within Boko Haram and pressed them to further unify the group's ranks. The result was the formation of a unity General Command between the two factions.

That involved bridging of some ideological differences between the al Qaeda-like Ansaru and the ultraextreme "takfiri"-like Shekau.



U.S. doubts about if partnership will be effective


In July, Shekau voiced support for ISIS, and declared a overtaken town in northeast Nigeria to be part of an Islamic caliphate. But he also said he was praying for al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri and Taliban leader Mullah Omar.

U.S. intelligence officials have some doubts the two groups would get along.

The CIA's analysis has been that Boko is very African and rooted in that region's Islamic practices, even if they have similar fundamentalist interpretations of Islam. And ISIS's Arab leadership and membership tends to have racist attitudes toward blacks, not unlike the society they come from.



Increasing violence


Boko Haram, whose name translates as "Western education is sin," has been waging a yearslong campaign of terror aimed at instituting its extreme version of Sharia law.

Boko Haram's tactics have intensified in recent years, from battling Nigerian government soldiers to acts disproportionately affecting civilians -- such as raids on villages, mass kidnappings, assassinations, market bombings and attacks on churches and unaffiliated mosques.

Much of this violence has taken place in Nigeria. But neighboring countries, such as Cameroon and Chad, have also been hit increasingly hard.

Oh, hell.

France, they are yours.
 
Good article on why these idiot European kids keep joining ISIS:

"As Norman Cohn put it in his path-breaking study The Pursuit of the Millennium(1957), apocalyptic movements under a charismatic leader have always appealed to people who suffer from social alienation or who are seeking some new source of meaning:

On the strength of inspirations or revelations for which he claimed divine origins this leader would decree for his followers a communal mission of vast dimensions and world-shaking importance. The conviction of having such a mission, of being divinely appointed to carry out a prodigious task, provided the disoriented and the frustrated with new bearings and new hope…In the eschatological phantasies which they had inherited from the distant past….these people found a social myth most perfectly adapted to their needs...."

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2015/feb/28/lure-caliphate-isis/?insrc=hpss
 
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Good article on why these idiot European kids keep joining ISIS:

"As Norman Cohn put it in his path-breaking study The Pursuit of the Millennium(1957), apocalyptic movements under a charismatic leader have always appealed to people who suffer from social alienation or who are seeking some new source of meaning:

On the strength of inspirations or revelations for which he claimed divine origins this leader would decree for his followers a communal mission of vast dimensions and world-shaking importance. The conviction of having such a mission, of being divinely appointed to carry out a prodigious task, provided the disoriented and the frustrated with new bearings and new hope…In the eschatological phantasies which they had inherited from the distant past….these people found a social myth most perfectly adapted to their needs...."

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2015/feb/28/lure-caliphate-isis/?insrc=hpss

Exhibit A as to why "poverty is the root cause of terrorism" is such bullshit. So-called "alienation" can happen to the whiny fucks who are wealthy just as easily as it can to poor kids. Perhaps even more easily, because kids in poverty have to struggle just to eat. Wealthier kids whose basic needs are met need to look elsewhere for an outlet to their angst.
 
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Iran isn't helping Iraq out of the goodness of its heart. It is doing it to strengthen the Shi'ites in Iraq and gain influence over the government.

And while Iran hasn't committed its Army in other nations, it has supplied large amounts of weapons, including tens of thousands of rockets, to surrogates, including Hamas and Hezbollah.

ISIS is no good for Iran or any other country in the region. Why wouldn't Iran be doing it out of the goodness of its heart? It's not as if they're deploying troops across the globe. This is Iran's backyard.

As maligned as a nation Iran is, you'd think that it actually invaded its neighbors and was the cause of ME despair.
 
As maligned as a nation Iran is, you'd think that it actually invaded its neighbors and was the cause of ME despair.

So you think Iran is "unfairly maligned? Being a state sponsor of terrorism, supporting/supplying the Taliban, Hexbollah, Hamas, using Quds force personnel to facilitate terror attacks in other nations, etc.... is just the kind of mischief kids get into or something? You can just start with the footnote in Wikipedia for starters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

Then there's all the stuff about Israel being a cancer, and wiping it off the map because most of the people who'd be killed are just Jews anyway.

http://unitedwithisrael.org/genocide-of-jews-is-obligation/

Does none of that bother you, or do you just not believe it?
 
Exhibit A as to why "poverty is the root cause of terrorism" is such bullshit. So-called "alienation" can happen to the whiny fucks who are wealthy just as easily as it can to poor kids. Perhaps even more easily, because kids in poverty have to struggle just to eat. Wealthier kids whose basic needs are met need to look elsewhere for an outlet to their angst.
No but poverty is a root cause of Islamism which is the ideology terrorists espouse. Not saying you are wrong; but, I doubt anyone can point to a root cause of terrorism and if you think you can you're full of shit. So your post seems kind of like saying "saying oxygen kills you is such bullshit." Oxygen can kill you, but is not necessarily the root cause of all death.
 
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