The Progression of Gooden's game

[Wine and Gold]

We've talked extensively on lots of players ...Lebron of course, Z, Snow, the Sasha/Luke debate, and all our newbies that we got in the offseason. I'd like to dedicate this thread to my imprssions and your impressions of the new and improved (in some areas) Drew Gooden ...and his status of play during this season ...and his possible non-status with us after this season.

First and foremost, I LOVE the energy he brings to the game ...he's layed it out there with more toughness and hard nosed play than I've ever seen him bring on a consistent basis. He'd bring it hard last year, but then would have his games where he seemed in a fog. This year, to say he's been tenacious out there, wouldn't be boasting ...he's truly got his a$$ to the fire in this his contract year.

My immediate impressions of him physically is that he's added some very needed weight and strength during this past offseason. He needed it badly because at times last year he was manhandled by bigger and stronger PF's like Elton Brand ....actually got embarrassed by Brand is my recollection and had to be pulled early so that Diop (of all players) could handle what Gooden couldn't. With the added bulk he's gotten himself close to where he needs to be to compete against all varieties of PF's he comes in contact with as the season unwinds ...

So for his effort and physical improvements he gets an A+ ...He's taken his god given abilities and added to them, and is getting the most of what he's got on the court with a work ethic that is, quite frankly, becoming contagious.

But, a players only as good as his limits ...and Drew's past and current limitations basically concern the mental side of the game. On this front he HAS shown some definite improvements, in my opinion. He's far from a finished product though. As far a grasping the mental side, especially defensively, he is just beginning to show signs of some understanding of what he's supposed to be doing.

With him, its just gonna take repititions ..seeing situations and gradually executing his reponsibilities to those situations more on an instinctual basis ..rather than what he's doing now which is more thinking his way through his defensive assignments. Basically, when he's able to identify the situation ...which he is erratic ..he knows his assignments on some occassions, and is lost on others ..but when he does recognize he's often late in getting to his spot. BUT ...as a coach I can see the light IS TRULY beginning to go on ..and he is gradually seeing ...recognizing situations ...and the effort to learn is taking root. I never ever got this impression last season ...I never felt that I saw any progress and even the slightest bit of any kind of understanding.

So, I am encouraged by his gradual progress in learning where he fits, what his assignments are, and I believe once that recognition takes root ..with repitition it gradually works into an instinctual part of his game ...but, as the season progresses I'll continue to observe what I see and we'll do updates on his progress.

Offensively he's a far more polished player than we are asking him to show ...he has a far greater repatoire than we ask of him to utilize ...and it's frustrating to him. BUT, where he is improved on the maturity level, is he is better controlling his impulses. You still see him dipsy doodling around at times ...but far less frequent than we became accustomed to last year. As he continues to mature he'll continue to find where his spots to improvise are, and where they aren't ...we've seen good progress there, in my opinion.

As for what the team does with him in the offseason ...I think he likes it here ..one of his best friends in life is CC Sabatthia ...and no player exhibits more active community involvement than Drew. He's a gift to Cleveland and a great representive of our team in the community with what he does on a number of fronts both during the season, and the offseason. He's very visible and positive in how he participates in his charitable endevours. And that truly is a major factor in things when it comes to making a long term commitment to an athlete. He won't do anything to embarrass or distract from the team's efforts ...his off the court life is exemplary.

So, if he continues in his progress ...I truly think it will be a 'no-brainer' in regards to Drew's contract. If he continues to progress ..I would hope that Ferry initiates some contract dialogue at some point during this season and get this guy in our back pocket for the prime years of his NBA career. If we don't, this could be one nugget that we could kick ourselves for not securing down the road when we see the finished product. And that products finishing shouldn't take that much more time... Just keep him in the same system with the same good coaching staff for a couple years consecutively (something he's never had the privledge of having, and has set him back development-wise) should get him to one of the highest levels in the league at his position ...

What are you guys thoughts ?

 

[aaronr]

Statistically speaking, here it is this year after 9 games compared to (last year) adjusted for minutes played (48)

fg% .526 (.492)
ft% .788 (.810)
pts 20.0 (22.5)
reb 14.9 (14.3)
asst 1.7 (2.5)
st 1.70 (1.46)
bl 3.02 (1.45)
to 2.5 (2.5)
a/to .69 (.98)

 

[Karma]

First off, great post Wine and Gold.

Drew Gooden has taken a definate step forward this season. His added bulk has allowed him to d up his man alot more effectively. Last season he would come up with the odd block here and there, but overall he was poor. This season though there has been a noticable difference. He can make regular stops, and his shotblocking has also improved. His lapses on defense are still fairly regular, but not as obvious. His effort levelas are second to none starting every game. he does go through periods though that if he isn't receiving much ball, he does seemingly disappear. This is when you seen Brown bring in Marshall.

Offensively he is being nice and efficient. Deep down he would be crying out for more possessions, but for the moment he is doing what is required. The talent levels are very high on obvious although his style is a little unique.

Will he be back next season? Hard to say. One wonders what his demands will be. We do have Marshall and Varejao back next season sohe is playing in a position of strength for the Cavs. Cleveland will be wary of the luxury tax that will soon be popping its head up with the esculating costs of LeBron, Ilgauskas, Hughes and Snow. Adding another big contract could be disatrous.

I am all for bringing Drew back, but I am concerned about our cap position. If it is clear his demands will put us in a dire financial psoition we do need to look sign and trade. Particulary too if we still have Sasha and Luke on board.

Hopefully Drew is here to stay, but I have my doubts. The guy has worked hard and deserves some stability.

 

[Rimage]

We are over the cap next year anyway. Signing Drew makes no difference except in Gilberts checkbook. Drew always talks about finding a home in Cleveland and how he wants to stay. He is apparently grateful for getting a chance to prove himself and not continue his journeyman ways. But, heck, we have heard this from other players. If he wants to stay, it won't be a problem, but if he wants to put up the big numbers that we all know he is capable of somewhere else, than that is what is going to happen. If he stays here for another 4 years, him and Marshall will continue to be potent.

Varejao is also going to be showing up around here pretty soon as well, but he is still in the developmental stages. I don't know, but having too many good players is not a problem I mind having.

 

[Karma]

Don't get me wrong, I hope Drew is back bigtime. Its the luxury tax to me that is the only hurdle. Being over the cap isn't a drama, we all knew that would be the case. Its whether the improved Gooden will take probably less money to stay with us then he'll likely be offered.

 

[LyXo]

The way I see it, the Cavs don't make an outrageous push to re-sign him. We cannot afford a Boozer-level contract, but other teams might be interested in doing so. That can cause negotiation hell, but it is something that we have to deal with if we don't try to extend his contract before free agent season.

I can see us offering him a Haslem-like contract. 5 years, 40 million is something that we should be more than willing to offer to our starting PF. The best middle ground we might be able to come at is 3 years, 20 million. It would benefit Drew because he would be entering a contract year when in his prime, and still cling on to the championship team that is the Cavaliers.

Drew is definitely worth these contracts. He has come along like a pro and is learning the ropes as we speak. His defense is vastly improved and his shot-blocking greatly welcomed. It will only be a cause for concern if he's still making the same mistakes in January, February. His toughness is a weak spot, however. Despite adding bulk, he still has trouble going up strong to the hole when directly under the basket. I guess I shouldn't expect Amare-like hops though...

In terms of fitting in for the future with Marshall and Varejao: I don't forsee any problems. He is our #1 PF right now. Marshall and Varejao are both multi position players: Varejao is the future either at the PF or at Center... I hope we keep him behind Z for now, and offer him a long extension before anyone can try to get their hands on him. When he gets his extension he'll be ready to start. Marshall plays the C, PF, and SF, so his versatility will only ease Drew Gooden's position pressure. I have no problem with Drew staying here, as long as it's not for 12 million a year.

 

[Pioneer10]

^ agree with lyxo: hard not to give Drew a Haslem level contract. It would be reasonable for both the Cavs and Drew

 

[cavincali]

gooden has to love his role now. bron and hughes drive constantly and gooden is doing an absolute beautiful job of finding the open spot under the basket.

he doesnt look to score and he still puts up 12 a game.

he is a beast on the defensive rebounds, while z dominates the glass on the offensive side.

lyxo i wouldnt say that he lack toughness, he got hit it the face numerous times last year and came back with stitches. he averages the most blocks on the team and the majority of his points are from dunks. So i dont know how you are discrediting his toughness. Not dunking when their is 3 guys around you when you are under the basket does not mean your weak.

 

[TyGuy]

I love drew gooden, he by far gets the most crap out of any player on this team. Always easy to blame teh funny lookin guy I guess People had doubts about whether he coudl except this role. I think its clear with this kid, he will do whatever is asked and give it a 100%. I think it is strangely important to him to find a place because he was traded so often. I think we can meet him halfway at a reasonable price so he can have some nice change and a place to call home.

 

[Dungong]

I gotta agree with the posts so far. One other thing I've noticed is that Drew brings is hustle. Mike Brown has this team going on all cylinders and you'll notice Drew is much more active on the offensive boards this year. Also, he is one of those guys laying is body out for the loose balls and taking chargers. There are several tips and swipes that end up as more Cavs possessions that don't end up as rebounds.

He has also been pretty good about being the 4th option. Basically, in the 1st unit, Drew will get nothing ran for him specifically, though he has the ability to take defenders 1 on 1. Drew can also hit the outside shot, but its something we don't want him to take, and he knows it. I also have the feeling Drew would really like to fire up some 3's. I think he could hit them at a decent clip too if he was wide open, but we can't afford to have him hanging out on the perimeter, we need him there to clean up on the boards.

As far as long term plans, I don't see how we let this guy go this summer. We brought him in as a potential long term replacement for Boozer, and i think we got that. We're going to be over the cap, so I expect to see something maybe slightly larger than Haslem's contract and Dan Gilbert doesn't seem to spare any expense, so he seems to be a willing luxury tax candidate. If you're thinking long term guys we'll have to run with Lebron, theres him and Hughes who I can see hanging around in 5 years.

 

[Pioneer10]

I gotta agree with the posts so far. One other thing I've noticed is that Drew brings is hustle. Mike Brown has this team going on all cylinders and you'll notice Drew is much more active on the offensive boards this year. Also, he is one of those guys laying is body out for the loose balls and taking chargers. There are several tips and swipes that end up as more Cavs possessions that don't end up as rebounds.

He has also been pretty good about being the 4th option. Basically, in the 1st unit, Drew will get nothing ran for him specifically, though he has the ability to take defenders 1 on 1. Drew can also hit the outside shot, but its something we don't want him to take, and he knows it. I also have the feeling Drew would really like to fire up some 3's. I think he could hit them at a decent clip too if he was wide open, but we can't afford to have him hanging out on the perimeter, we need him there to clean up on the boards.

As far as long term plans, I don't see how we let this guy go this summer. We brought him in as a potential long term replacement for Boozer, and i think we got that. We're going to be over the cap, so I expect to see something maybe slightly larger than Haslem's contract and Dan Gilbert doesn't seem to spare any expense, so he seems to be a willing luxury tax candidate. If you're thinking long term guys we'll have to run with Lebron, theres him and Hughes who I can see hanging around in 5 years.

^Lebron, Hughes, Gooden, AV, and Luke (or Sasha) could form the nucleas that lasts the better part of 5-7 years.

 

[Rimage]

^Lebron, Hughes, Gooden, AV, and Luke (or Sasha) could form the nucleas that lasts the better part of 5-7 years.

It's true...we just need to find a young but solid pg to come in here when Snow is nearing his careers end and Damon Jones winding down. Plus, you never know how Marty will develope. He could be a great center for us if he follows in Z's shoes (sans the injuries).

 

[West Remy]

It's true...we just need to find a young but solid pg to come in here when Snow is nearing his careers end and Damon Jones winding down. Plus, you never know how Marty will develope. He could be a great center for us if he follows in Z's shoes (sans the injuries).

Agreed. I hope Cleveland's scouts are really taking a lot of looks at folks, so the Cavs can draft an impact making PG in the draft.

 

[CleveRocks]

On the topic, Gooden is doing great this year, and in my opinion will be the biggest benficiary of Mike Brown's coaching. He hasn't had any really off games yet this year either. I have said many times Gooden needs to mature mentally to reach his potential (that is especially true for road games), but given that we are not going to have Kevin Garnett anytime soon, I think Gooden is the right fit to the championship puzzle.

Mildly off topic, we need to be careful projecting AV at this point. He has suffered a pretty significant injury which could affect the way he plays. Before we pencil him in as the guy to replace Drew, we need to see how he comes back.

And as for the future core, the point guard discussion is the right one, but I am not convinced the draft will get us what we want. It seems to me that point guards who are ready to play right out of the draft are lottery picks, and that point guards that become real contributors after going in the late first round (where we will be drafting) take some time to grow. I think we are much more likely to find a point guard suitable to us already playing in the league or in europe, and to get to him via a trade of some kind. I do not see us making that trade this year though no matter how many times Snow is linked to Larry Brown. (It ain't broke, don't fix it)

 

[LyXo]

lyxo i wouldnt say that he lack toughness, he got hit it the face numerous times last year and came back with stitches. he averages the most blocks on the team and the majority of his points are from dunks. So i dont know how you are discrediting his toughness. Not dunking when their is 3 guys around you when you are under the basket does not mean your weak.

I know, I actually corrected myself in my last sentence in that paragraph. I expected too much of him. His putbacks now are more than sufficient as long as he's shooting 75-80% from the stripe.

And now that I look at his game logs, he's been one of the more consistent players on the team, something we couldn't say about him last year. Non-erratic minutes and positive motivation is working for the best with Drew.

And as for the future core, the point guard discussion is the right one, but I am not convinced the draft will get us what we want. It seems to me that point guards who are ready to play right out of the draft are lottery picks, and that point guards that become real contributors after going in the late first round (where we will be drafting) take some time to grow. I think we are much more likely to find a point guard suitable to us already playing in the league or in europe, and to get to him via a trade of some kind. I do not see us making that trade this year though no matter how many times Snow is linked to Larry Brown. (It ain't broke, don't fix it)

Jarret Jack could be a good option. They are overstacked at that position in Portland, so we might be able to swing something.